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Help with another bayonet please


27Division18
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Quick guess would be either a US 1855, or later 1873. Hard to tell from the photos. FYI, a whole lot of 1855s had the barrel "rings" (for lack of a better word) hammered down from .58 caliber size to the .45-70 caliber for the 1873 rifles.  SKIP

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Widukind1971

Good guess I think. The M1873 being made from the M1855 by cold-pressing (according to Hardin) is almost identical. But the socket of the M1873 is - because of the cold-pressing - a bit smaller than the original M1855 socket. 
 

The outside diameter of the

M1855 = 23,5 mm = 0,925197 inch

and
M1873 = 22,4 mm = 0,881890 inch

according to Kiesling.

 

So, if your bayonet isn’t too rusty, you could check it with a caliper. 
 

Picture is of my own M1855. I tried to duplicate your last photo.

CFC31899-ED00-43E0-8CCD-F58DCA78F125.jpeg

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My 1855 only measures .925195, mine must be fake.😁

 

Actually the old rule is: if a penny falls through the socket, it's an 1855.  If the penny gets stuck in the socket, it's an 1873. 

The scabbard you show is for the 1873.

The next consideration is that there are several socket bayonets that look very similar to both bayonets under consideration. 

It might be a Remington export bayonet, a Peabody model 1867, etc.

My guess is the Springfield 1873.

Marv

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Widukind1971

HI Marv,

 

Yep, then it must be a fake and by the way, is a penny the same size as a 5 eurocent coin 😉?

 

Mine is actually 23,5 mm, so I always took it as a M1855 in a M1873 scabbard.

 

I did check the Remington Exports in the Janzen book but it seemed that they were not marked US on the blade which seems logical. Was the Peabody M1867 not mainly for export also?

 

But I have to agree, American bayonets (especially the American civil war saber bayonets) are pretty difficult to determine by absence of markings - and indeed - many look very much alike. 

 

 

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Widukind1971

With the Janzen book I mean 'Bayonets of the Remington Cartridge Period' and not his Notebook. 

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Widukind1971

Thanks for the correction about the export bayonets.  No US.

As I was scrolling through the pictures, I mistook your photo of the Pennsylvania National Guard scabbard for one of  27division18's pictures.   A US ONE CENT coin is .75 inch with a little wear they measure .749 inch.

Thanks,

Marv

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