Is The KCUG Folding Knife Genuine USGI?

[Spathologist]

Legit?

 

[sactroop]

Any makers marks on the knife?

[SKIPH]

Haven't seen any of these yet.  The handle has the "Victorinox" (Swiss Army Knife) logo. Not sure how much I trust the US Government label,  have seen fakes.  SKIP

[Spathologist]

 

[Slufstuff]

Not much to add, but be cautious. I know these are already being faked by the Chinese.

[Boy Howdy]

Civilian version on AMAZON

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RL7OPU/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Charlie Flick]

The CAGE code on the package does not seem to be valid.  A search via the Defense Logistics Agency site does not show any hits for CAGE code VK5B6.   

 

Charlie

[Spathologist]

I asked because there was an article here:

 

http://18bravo.com/the-new-us-military-combat-utility-knife/

 

[Charlie Flick]

Spath:

 

I am not familiar with the 18bravo.com site you mentioned nor the credentials of the guy who wrote the article.  The article you cited is 13 months old. 

 

Whenever an item like a new US "Combat Knife" appears on the scene it typically makes some kind of splash at places like Army Times and blade industry publications.  I found no such splashes, large or small.  A brief search of the web only revealed mentions of this blade by civilian sellers of the blade and those who "reviewed" it.  Youtube posters are not convincing on this issue.  I found no evidence that this knife is USGI.

 

Having run both the CAGE code and the NSN number with negative results, I think I will have to call BS on this being a new USGI knife.  If anyone has evidence that would make me change my opinion on this I would be happy to hear it.  Otherwise, I think this one belongs in the fantasy knife arena.

 

Regards,

Charlie

[sactroop]

This thread is getting more interesting.

[sactroop]

So far I've located two places selling the knife in the OP.  Wind Rose Group LLC and CountyComm Government Group.  Does anyone know anything about either or both of these?

[Slufstuff]

Are these even genuine Victorinox made knives? The package shown conveniently covers part of the NSN and contract numbers, plus it looks a lot like "USGI" packages on known faked USGI knives and other items over the past few years. I think I saw an article or forum post a couple of years ago warning these were not even Victorinox made, much less USGI. I hope somebody can give a definitive answer.

[Slufstuff]

After posting the above, I did some looking myself on line. Smoky Mountain Knifeworks stocks this knife as a combat utility knife, claiming it is Swiss made. The UPN 7611160056658 leads back to the SMKW ad, plus a couple of other online retailers. Tellingly, the SMKW ad does not claim it is an actual USGI issue knife. But it does claim to be Swiss made. Hmmm.

 

The model number cited on the SMKW ad references a Victorinox model number of 0.8461. This number only shows the bright blade civilian models on the Victorinox web site.  Normally, I would consider a large reputable retailer like SMKW knows what and who they are buying from. I am wondering if these are Chinese fake knives that were passed on to them as original USGI maker knives? Anybody seen or heard of one in the hands of actual US military that was issued and not a private purchase? These have been around since 2018, you would think they would be well known by now. I am leaning towards total fantasy knife unless somebody can come up with some better proof.

[Boy Howdy]

This is the CountyComm.com website.

They claim the NSN 1095-01-653-1166 belongs to this knife.

 https://countycomm.com/collections/cutting/products/knife-combat-utility-kcu-nsn-1095-01-653-1166

[Slufstuff]

Still looking for info, as I would really like to know if this is legit. Found the below website, ISO Group that allows look up of NSN's.

 

https://www.iso-group.com/NSN/1095-01-653-1166

 

This does show info that supports this being a USGI knife, but some of the info is contradictory, for example "usually suplied with blood groove", when clearly this knife does not have such a feature. It also references recent contracts, but none look like the package contract number.

[Slufstuff]

14 hours ago, sactroop said:

So far I've located two places selling the knife in the OP.  Wind Rose Group LLC and CountyComm Government Group.  Does anyone know anything about either or both of these?

Wind Rose Group LLC is CAGE code 7KSF1, which the iso group link above shows as the drawing owner for NSN 1095-01-653-1166. The Wind Rose Group web site has a video describing the KCUG as a replacement for the old stainless steel DEMO knives. They state that the NSN was assigned by DOD, BUT they are careful in not stating these have been bought by the US military as a standard issue item. Wind Rose Group LLC is primarily an overseas sales organization, not so much to actual US military. My best guess at this point is this company is promoting the KCUG to overseas buyers as a "USGI" knife, when in reality it is a small unit purchase item at best. They unloaded some to a few online retailers using the same pitch.

 

I still cannot determine if these are actual Victorinox items. The paper trail is pretty circular, everything leading back to Wind Rose Group and CountyComm Government Group.

[Slufstuff]

And, onto CountyComm Government Group. Their website is similar to Wind Rose, but appears to market their items to US federal, state, and county agencies. They might well be the same people involved, just with one company for overseas sales, the other for domestic sales. The most interesting thing I found there was the CAGE code listed for several of their metal products, 5VKB6, maker EOD Robotics Inc. Pretty big coincidence the knife package uses VK5B6, then consider Victorinox CAGE is 1NL21. So whatever is going on, Victorinox is highly unlikely to have placed those knives in the VK5B6 marked packages. The devil is truly in the details.

 

So far we have nothing but the word from Wind Rose Group and CountyComm Government Group that Victorinox even made these knives.

[Boy Howdy]

I sent a picture of the knife to Victorinox.

I'll let you all know what they say if anything.

[Slufstuff]

3 hours ago, Boy Howdy said:

I sent a picture of the knife to Victorinox.

I'll let you all know what they say if anything.

Great idea. I hope they can at least confirm or deny they made these knives.

[Boy Howdy]

Along with the picture I wrote:

"Is this a real SAK supplied to the US Military or a copy?"

They should be able to answer that one definitively.

[mohawkALSE]

Very strange stuff there.  The NSN seems legit and the description of the knife under the NSN seems to match what this is, but that label seems to be 50 percent B.S.    There is no such CAGE Code as listed there, and under the NSN I only found the CAGE being 7KFS1 which is that Windrose Group LLC.     Also under the NSN look up it lists the contract numbers that have been given for these and they dont match whats on that label, which the label contract looks like complete crap to me.

[Boy Howdy]

Got a reply from Victorinox.

Should answer the big question.

 

07/14/2021 14:30 - Leonard wrote:

Dear Claudia,

Does Victorinox manufacture such a knife for the US government?

Leonard

 

Hello Leonard,
We do not.

 Sincerely,
Claudia
Customer Support
Victorinox Swiss Army

Thank you for allowing us to assist you with your Victorinox Swiss Army needs, we hope we have exceeded your expectations.

 

 

[Charlie Flick]

Well, there you have it.  As most of us suspected, this knife is not USGI and is not even a legit Victorinox product.  Instead, it is a total fantasy piece. 

 

Nice group detective work, BTW.  Thanks.

 

Regards,

Charlie

[EmperorWangDong]

Decent looking little knife, but thanks to everyone for busting the myth. A total phony it appears.

[Boy Howdy]

I ordered one of the "civilian" versions from Amazon.

Nice handy knife.

Pictured in post #6.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001RL7OPU/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1