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Named US Tanker Bringbacks w/ SS Items ETC.


John4022
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John4022

Hi everyone, I wanted to share my recent vet grouping I got back in April from the vets son. These items came from a tanker who served in the 745th Tank Battalion, his name was William Dick Jr. The neatest item in my opinion is a news update pamphlet from the SS Götz von Berlichingen division, I've never seen a similar item like this. Also the cutoff sleeve eagle is a nice rarer pattern which I'm in love with. Hopefully you guys enjoy seeing all of this!

-John

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USCapturephotos

Oh man. Perfect bring back grouping. Congratulations. I’d love to be the owner of this. Let us know if you’re able to learn more about the US vet. Would be interesting to see if and when his unit tangled with the ss and which units they were as well as the 396th.

Paul

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Excellent items and great photos, congrats on getting it!

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John4022
21 minutes ago, USCapturephotos said:

Oh man. Perfect bring back grouping. Congratulations. I’d love to be the owner of this. Let us know if you’re able to learn more about the US vet. Would be interesting to see if and when his unit tangled with the ss and which units they were as well as the 396th.

Paul

Thank you Paul! I'm thinking some of the SS items & the Fallschirmjäger patch were souvenired during Operation Cobra since the dates correspond with each other. The 17th GvB division was there as well as the 5th Parachute Division. I couldn't find a match to the 396th (Wehrmacht?) strap cyphers. 

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John4022

I translated one side of the SS GvB news flier using google translate. I think it did well, theres without a doubt some errors but I think it captures the overall message. The backside mostly gives propaganda updates about news from the other fronts (Italy, Eastern Front, Air Battles). It also writes about the attempted assassination of Hitler which happened a day before this flier was printed. The assassination attempt on Hitler was July 20th 1944, this newsletter was printed July 21st. Personally I think this flier is the coolest piece! I have it in a UV & acid protected Riker Board so hopefully I'm preserving it correctly. 

dd967de4c910e81036dcbbf8798073a7.png.638d546f9498665f7c46594ecede31c6.png

 

Here's how I'm displaying everything, I think it looks well!1642874650_20210418_151919(1).jpg.67e326482b344fe9ffef4244e336accb.jpg

 

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patches
3 hours ago, John4022 said:

Thank you Paul! I'm thinking some of the SS items & the Fallschirmjäger patch were souvenired during Operation Cobra since the dates correspond with each other. The 17th GvB division was there as well as the 5th Parachute Division. I couldn't find a match to the 396th (Wehrmacht?) strap cyphers. 

Infanterie Regiment 396, 216. Infanterie Division,

 

Problem, this division was in the east, it suffered huge losses in the Battle of Kursk and the subsequent retreat during the remainder of the summer of 1943 into the autumn, so much so that it had to be disbanded. However many survivors are sent to Belgium to form a new division, this one called the 272nd Infantry Division, one souse say the remnants of the 216th's 348th Infantry Regiment was among these, not the 396th, but seeing these are captured stuff from the western front by an american, perhaps some guys from the 396th were sent to Belgium too, captured at a latter date .

 

 BECAUSE

The 272nd Infantry Division fought against the British and Canadians however, but when it was reformed in the fall of 1944 as a  Volksgrenadier Division, then it sees action against the American, something I never knew till just now, 272nd Volksgrenadier Division destroyed the  U.S. 2nd Battalion, 310th Infantry 79th Infantry Division in the Battle of Kesternich in the Roer area,

 

As to the 272nd Volksgrenadier Division going up against the 1st Infantry Division, which was the division the 745th Tank Battalion was attached to may have occurred around this time in late fall of 44, hard to tell, and  that is if these were from a former member now in the 272nd Volksgrenadier Division. Or he just acquired these 396 loops at a later date in the war somehow, somewhere, because you'll note he didn't mark them with at loation and date like most of his other stuff on that piece of think paper.

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USCapturephotos
7 hours ago, patches said:

Infanterie Regiment 396, 216. Infanterie Division,

 

Problem, this division was in the east, it suffered huge losses in the Battle of Kursk and the subsequent retreat during the remainder of the summer of 1943 into the autumn, so much so that it had to be disbanded. However many survivors are sent to Belgium to form a new division, this one called the 272nd Infantry Division, one souse say the remnants of the 216th's 348th Infantry Regiment was among these, not the 396th, but seeing these are captured stuff from the western front by an american, perhaps some guys from the 396th were sent to Belgium too, captured at a latter date .

 

 BECAUSE

The 272nd Infantry Division fought against the British and Canadians however, but when it was reformed in the fall of 1944 as a  Volksgrenadier Division, then it sees action against the American, something I never knew till just now, 272nd Volksgrenadier Division destroyed the  U.S. 2nd Battalion, 310th Infantry 79th Infantry Division in the Battle of Kesternich in the Roer area,

 

As to the 272nd Volksgrenadier Division going up against the 1st Infantry Division, which was the division the 745th Tank Battalion was attached to may have occurred around this time in late fall of 44, hard to tell, and  that is if these were from a former member now in the 272nd Volksgrenadier Division. Or he just acquired these 396 loops at a later date in the war somehow, somewhere, because you'll note he didn't mark them with at loation and date like most of his other stuff on that piece of think paper.

Stuff definitely got around. For instance I have a well worn tk SS tab that was cut from a uniform and brought home by a member of the US 96th Bomb Group who was shot down and held as a captive in several different Luft Stalags. The 3rd SS spent the latter half of the war in the East until the end when a small remnant surrendered in Austria and were handed over to the Russians. I often contemplate how this vet would have gotten ahold of that insignia.

Paul

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USCapturephotos
7 hours ago, John4022 said:

I translated one side of the SS GvB news flier using google translate. I think it did well, theres without a doubt some errors but I think it captures the overall message. The backside mostly gives propaganda updates about news from the other fronts (Italy, Eastern Front, Air Battles). It also writes about the attempted assassination of Hitler which happened a day before this flier was printed. The assassination attempt on Hitler was July 20th 1944, this newsletter was printed July 21st. Personally I think this flier is the coolest piece! I have it in a UV & acid protected Riker Board so hopefully I'm preserving it correctly. 

dd967de4c910e81036dcbbf8798073a7.png.638d546f9498665f7c46594ecede31c6.png

 

Here's how I'm displaying everything, I think it looks well!1642874650_20210418_151919(1).jpg.67e326482b344fe9ffef4244e336accb.jpg

 

Your display looks great! Thanks for the info about the GVB Division and FJ units as well. Congratulations again!

Paul

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M24 Chaffee

Always nice to see tanker related items. My Father was a tanker in the 8th Armored Division. That’s a very interesting grouping and you have it displayed nicely! It was cool to read the translation of the pamphlet.

 

Frank

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Kurt Barickman

Wow, love how the vet seemed to document many of the items; GvB items are fantastic right from the height of the Normandy campaign, Congrats on a great vet pile.

 

 

Kurt

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John4022
10 hours ago, patches said:

Infanterie Regiment 396, 216. Infanterie Division,

 

Problem, this division was in the east, it suffered huge losses in the Battle of Kursk and the subsequent retreat during the remainder of the summer of 1943 into the autumn, so much so that it had to be disbanded. However many survivors are sent to Belgium to form a new division, this one called the 272nd Infantry Division, one souse say the remnants of the 216th's 348th Infantry Regiment was among these, not the 396th, but seeing these are captured stuff from the western front by an american, perhaps some guys from the 396th were sent to Belgium too, captured at a latter date .

 

 BECAUSE

The 272nd Infantry Division fought against the British and Canadians however, but when it was reformed in the fall of 1944 as a  Volksgrenadier Division, then it sees action against the American, something I never knew till just now, 272nd Volksgrenadier Division destroyed the  U.S. 2nd Battalion, 310th Infantry 79th Infantry Division in the Battle of Kesternich in the Roer area,

 

As to the 272nd Volksgrenadier Division going up against the 1st Infantry Division, which was the division the 745th Tank Battalion was attached to may have occurred around this time in late fall of 44, hard to tell, and  that is if these were from a former member now in the 272nd Volksgrenadier Division. Or he just acquired these 396 loops at a later date in the war somehow, somewhere, because you'll note he didn't mark them with at loation and date like most of his other stuff on that piece of think paper.

Thank you for the very informative reply patches! I found that history too but I figured I might of had the wrong regiment since they were originally in the east. Its certainly one of those scenarios that we'll never know how he got it! 

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John4022

Thank you everyone for the comments, I'm glad you guys enjoy it as much as I do! Let me know if you want better pictures of anything!

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John4022
2 minutes ago, dhcoleterracina said:

Great stuff, hope it stays together. 

I also shared this grouping over at Wehrmacht Awards. Of course my PM box blew up. One collector asked me if I could cutout (exact words)  just the SS patches and sell them to him.  I couldn't believe the disrespect some collectors show towards historic grouping like this. To me, half the historical significance to this lot is to see where/when these items were souvenired, why sever that historic connection?

 

I did promise the vets son when he sold everything to me that it will all stay together. And to be completely honest, even if I did want to sell something I don't think I could bring myself to do it! After a lot of phone calls with him he was thrilled that a 24 year old collector was interested in WWII and he loved seeing his dads items on display together in my collection. 

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49 minutes ago, John4022 said:

I also shared this grouping over at Wehrmacht Awards. Of course my PM box blew up. One collector asked me if I could cutout (exact words)  just the SS patches and sell them to him.  I couldn't believe the disrespect some collectors show towards historic grouping like this. To me, half the historical significance to this lot is to see where/when these items were souvenired, why sever that historic connection?

 

I did promise the vets son when he sold everything to me that it will all stay together. And to be completely honest, even if I did want to sell something I don't think I could bring myself to do it! After a lot of phone calls with him he was thrilled that a 24 year old collector was interested in WWII and he loved seeing his dads items on display together in my collection. 

 

You're doing the right thing, that's great to hear. Some collectors lose their minds in situations like this, it's funny. This grouping has found a good home :) 

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dhcoleterracina

I know what you mean about the WAF, there are great people there but some big jerks as well. 

 

The real rarity here are the Vet's dates along with the insignia. Since you know where the Vet served you might be able to track down exactly where the action was on August 5th 1944. It's likely that the sleeve eagle, collar tab, rank chevron and specialty patch all came from the same SS uniform. When does that EVER happen? Next to never in my experience. 

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Mr.Jerry

Wow that is an awesome grouping!- just spectacular.

and yea I am still always shocked with how fast people are to split things up, take things apart and in general just flush away the history of the item.

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Kurt Barickman

Yes, the provenance is more important than the items to me anyway. Have you read Mark Bando´s book about bring backs from 101st troopers? Very interesting read and the background and the veteran´s story are the best part to the whole thing;IMHO.

 

Kurt

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John4022
58 minutes ago, Kurt Barickman said:

Yes, the provenance is more important than the items to me anyway. Have you read Mark Bando´s book about bring backs from 101st troopers? Very interesting read and the background and the veteran´s story are the best part to the whole thing;IMHO.

 

Kurt

I have not read his book about bringbacks but I have read through the souvenirs segment on his website many times! https://www.101airborneww2.com/souvenirs.html 

 

Thanks for all the comments!

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manayunkman

Great group!!

 

Looks like the kriegs flag was never finished.

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John4022
6 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

Great group!!

 

Looks like the kriegs flag was never finished.

Thank you! I'm thinking he cut the flag off something? Some of the edges aren't completely straight and in some spots its starting to unravel. Its dated March 1945, during that time period I believe he was in the Remagen area.  

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