5thwingmarty Posted September 19, 2018 Share #251 Posted September 19, 2018 And the hallmark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted September 20, 2018 Share #252 Posted September 20, 2018 It's seen use... And a bit of abuse... But I think it's authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplecanopy Posted September 20, 2018 Share #253 Posted September 20, 2018 Not to disagree, but from a learning perspective I'd like to know why you feel that this wing is authentic. If it was a parachute badge, I would say that it was cast. It has flaws in unusual places, it has berries (look above the letter R in sterling and next to the letter Y in New York. There is a blob of silver next to the letter N in New York. The edge of the wing looks like it has mold marks and not die marks. So again, I am wanting to know why this badge's appearance tells you it is authentic when there are so many indicators that say differently to me. Again I offer my comments with respect and sincerity and not to argue. Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted September 20, 2018 Share #254 Posted September 20, 2018 Triplecanopy makes some good points, but on this one, I have to agree with Russ. Those dings on the shoulder look like normal wear and tear, not signs of casting. The "crease" on the side also looks like some wear (or maybe a manufacturing flaw during the die strike process) and not a casting seam. Overall, I like what I see. The lettering on the hallmark looks nice and crisp and even (note the very small spaces in the loops of the script). Those fine lines are VERY hard to reproduce with a casting. The little bumps and "berries" on the back don't really concern me as they don't seem like casting pits. These wings were never supposed to be perfect, they were (relatively) cheap pieces of insignia intended to be worn. As I told another collector, sometimes you can look TOO closely at a wing and if you are looking to find issues, you will find them, no matter how good everything else is on the item. The pin and catch is right, the silver finish is right. The hallmark is right. The bomb is right. Like Russ, I suspect this fine fellow got worn and beat up. Sometimes with castings, its hard to know for sure. And there is a lot of room to quibble. But nothing much on this wing causes me to have much heart burn, if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted September 20, 2018 Share #255 Posted September 20, 2018 This AM I pulled a couple of my Lux's (the pilot and bombardier). While my bombardier wing used the incised script hallmark (so I couldn't do a side-by-side comparison), the pilot wing had the excised version. Neither of my wings had the crease on the side, but one had a few dings like this one. All in all, from what I could see, I am happy with all three wings (my two and this one). Of course, there are some good castings out there as the value of Lux's make it economically feasible to fake them. My advice is you have to decide what level of uncertainty you want in your collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplecanopy Posted September 20, 2018 Share #256 Posted September 20, 2018 Thank you. I feel a bit more educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted September 20, 2018 Share #257 Posted September 20, 2018 Not to disagree, but from a learning perspective I'd like to know why you feel that this wing is authentic. If it was a parachute badge, I would say that it was cast. It has flaws in unusual places, it has berries (look above the letter R in sterling and next to the letter Y in New York. There is a blob of silver next to the letter N in New York. The edge of the wing looks like it has mold marks and not die marks. So again, I am wanting to know why this badge's appearance tells you it is authentic when there are so many indicators that say differently to me. Again I offer my comments with respect and sincerity and not to argue. Thanks for your comments. Hello Triplecanopy, I'm no expert or authority in any field of militaria collecting... especially wing collecting! If I was, I wouldn't have the current need to be seeking a larger box to stow away all of the reproductions and fantasy pieces I've accumulated from past mistakes! (As fellow Forum member "B-17 Guy" so eloquently described, "My box of tears!") You're absolutely right about the Bombardier badge illustrated above, having some real questionable details and cause to believe it may not be authentic? Let me add a few things to Patrick's list of well described observations: It's my understanding the original Luxenberg Co. never produced any of their own wings or insignia. Instead, they contracted with existing manufactures like Blackinton Co. and American Emblem Co. to fill their orders, with the Luxenberg hallmark applied by the host manufacture. Several fellow collectors have told me the Luxenberg management maintained their dies, then droped them off with Blackinton when additional badges were needed? How factual that is, I'm not certain? I know that after Luxenberg ceased as a business, the dies passed through the hands of Alan C. Beckman and are current under the control of Joe W who has told me he has no intentions of using them for future restrikes. I think that's probably a good idea since the Lux dies by themselves are highly valued and very, very collectible! And the chance of cracks or additional damage to those rare dies is not worth the risk. (Please, lets keep this thread focused on Luxenberg wings only. Enough said.) From what I've seen in handling Luxenberg hallmarked wings (and this is only speculation on my part) the first-pattern badge with circular "target" in the center, as seen above supporting Marty's downward facing bomb, was likely the most produced wing by Luxenberg in WWII. That 'target' wing was used as the base or foundation for so many of the other aerial ratings... including the first pattern Lux Observer's wing! If you look at authentic first pattern Aircrew, Aerial Gunner, Bombardier, Navigator and Observer's wings, they all have a second piece depicting the aerial rating applied to that base "target" design. So, it stands to reason, that specific "target" die likely saw lots of use and suffered plenty of wear and tear. The little raised nipple seen above the letter "R" in the raised "STERLING" mark, is something I look for when evaluating all first pattern Luxenberg marked aerial ratings, except Pilot wings, since they used a completely different die with the shield design. I believe that crisp nipple mark is actually part of the hallmark stamp... and is a positive thing for me when evaluating a Lux wing. As Patrick mentioned above, I also like the crisp edges seen on the raised lettering. Cast wings just don't have that clean 90 degree angle along the letter's rim... especially inside the upper portion of the letter "R". The small enclosure in the letter "R" is usually the first thing that gets distorted with a casting effort. I like the original cam-stop pin and catch applied to the reverse. Period repaired Lux badges being the exception, if I see some other type of findings other that those present on Marty's badge above, it's a red flag in my opinion. Another thing I look for in authentic Lux badges are the two shades of toning frequently seen on the surface of the reverse. When I have access to my examples, I'll post a couple of images to better illustrate that frosting and toning which seems to be so unique to Lux badges... I'm looking forward to viewing other opinions in this worthy exchange of ideas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted July 3, 2020 Share #258 Posted July 3, 2020 First time I've shared these I believe. Taken 20years of collecting but finally put together a share worthy collection. All are luxenberg hallmarked of various patterns except the single engraved "E" wing made by KG Luke. I will include a shot of the backs as well in the future. The only duplicate wings are the bottom three which are available to trade for other Luxenberg, KG Luke or Tiffany pieces! I am still looking for various patterns / pin types of Luxenbergs and any legitimate Luke wings as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL THE PATCH Posted July 3, 2020 Share #259 Posted July 3, 2020 Very impressive, congrats on a great collection.Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wake1941 Posted July 3, 2020 Share #260 Posted July 3, 2020 Very nice collection, you certainly don’t see many of the shirt sized ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustywings Posted July 3, 2020 Share #261 Posted July 3, 2020 Nice herd of Lux's! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted July 4, 2020 Share #262 Posted July 4, 2020 Very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted October 27, 2020 Share #263 Posted October 27, 2020 Greetings, I just acquired this lux pilot. Its a first for me.... Im fairly certain after studying it for days and days that its genuine. Im hoping I am better at spotting genuine wings than I am at other militaria ... lol Sellers pics. Thoughts ? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted October 28, 2020 Share #264 Posted October 28, 2020 nothing wrong with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff41st Posted October 28, 2020 Share #265 Posted October 28, 2020 They're good. Nice addition to your collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted October 30, 2020 Share #266 Posted October 30, 2020 I'd be happy with it nice find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rooster Posted October 31, 2020 Share #267 Posted October 31, 2020 In a little over 2 and a half years of looking, I finally found one I could afford. Ive seen them go for 400 to 600 bucks. Its the most I ever paid for a wing. And its a beautiful thang !!! Thank you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted June 13, 2021 Share #268 Posted June 13, 2021 Looking for your thoughts on the First pattern Lux pilot. I think it is good, but just wanted to hear from some of you out there specializing in wings. Hope the pics are okay. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted June 14, 2021 Share #269 Posted June 14, 2021 The wings appear OK to me but the main pin and hinge pin are obvious replacements. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted June 14, 2021 Share #270 Posted June 14, 2021 Thanks Mike, I have seen other examples with a silver colored pin, is that why you think the pin has been replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeK Posted June 14, 2021 Share #271 Posted June 14, 2021 Lux 1st patterns are generally (?only) found with a chamfered (at the hinge end) silver coloured main pin. Other manufacturers certainly used brass coloured pins as standard. The hinge pin replacement/repair with a non-standard main pin to me points to both being replaced. Others may differ in opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted June 14, 2021 Share #272 Posted June 14, 2021 Thank you again Mark. I sure can’t see a repair, must have been done by a jeweler maybe, the workmanship was very good when examining the solder and base of the hinge. I appreciate your thoughts and welcome anyone else to offer an opinion on this wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thwingmarty Posted June 14, 2021 Share #273 Posted June 14, 2021 I am curious as to what happened to the face of this wing. It reminds me of many of the Bell Navigator wings with the raised specs. I have not noticed other Luxenberg wings with these specs on the face. There should be detail lines in the recessed vertical stripes on the shield but I don't see those. They may be there but just not in focus or whatever caused the specs may have obliterated the detail lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted June 14, 2021 Share #274 Posted June 14, 2021 Yeah I don’t know what the specs are either. I can tell you in hand, they don’t show like they do in the photos. I assume it might be residue from old cleaning, but I agree I have never really seen anything like that. I thought about gently scrubbing with a soft toothbrush and dish soap but don’t usually touch my wings as far as cleaning. The little incised lines are present in the stripes in the shield but there is a lot of dark tarnish in there camouflaging it. I have collected for over over thirty years and have been in and out of focusing on AAF material including wings. I am now jumping back into the wings again and reading a lot, looking at old threads, etc. I have owned these Lux wings for a few years, bought from a good friend and dealer who doesn’t specialize in wings but is an honest guy. During all my reading, and re-examining my collection, I noticed first the brass pin and different hinge on these. Then after reading a post by Mtnman about buying a cast wing a few years ago, I started worrying whether this wing might be cast. As I said in the original post, I no longer feel that way especially after examining the photos and looking closer at the wing in sunlight. I can see old evidence of some of the original frosting and the details like the makers mark, etc I think look crisp. There was a couple little bubble looking areas on the back just to the right of the shield depression but I have seen this same imperfection on other Lux wings. It doesn’t show well in the pics, but there is also a small scrape or divet on the front of the shield that concerned me, but after further examination, I think it might be some slight damage, a scrape or hit if that makes sense. It is small. Anyway, full disclosure on my midnight anxieties. Again, let me know what you think on cast v. Struck, and the pin issue on the back. Did the wings contracted by Lux ever have a different pin or were they always the same? If it is a repair, it was once again done very well, and appears to me the work might have been done a long time ago as I can’t see any evidence of any bright solder at all. But a repair is a repair as far as value goes. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5thwingmarty Posted June 14, 2021 Share #275 Posted June 14, 2021 I don't see anything that screams cast to me. I don't know what caused the specs but that does not indicate being cast to me. I don't have a Lux Pilot to directly compare to, but per Bob's website the one shown there is listed as being 3-1/16" in span. If your wing is cast, I would anticipate it being short of 3" in span. As far as the pin, with the odd hinge pin for the brass pin, I am guessing that this wing lost it's original cammed silver pin and someone took a brass pin from another wing and installed it with a bit of wire for a new hinge pin. That would explain the lack of any evidence of new soldier on the fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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