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3 - Meyer Glider Pilot Wings.. Which one is a fake?


The Rooster
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The Rooster

Greetings all.

 

I have been seeing so many fake Meyer wings that I thought it would be cool to post 3 Meyer

 

Glider Pilot wings that I found on ebay.

 

Which one is a faker ?

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The Rooster

The answer of course is that all three are fake / Restrikes.

 

In 2 of the wings above, the black Laquer substance...what ever it is,

 

has been removed. One by polishing and the other looks like by chemical means

 

as you can still see the imprint of where the laquer was.. Bottom wing.

 

And in all 3 they have the wrong pins.

 

Here is the backside of a real Meyer wing from WW2.

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With so many new people coming into the hobby, posts like these are extremely valuable.

 

Thanks for the educational post!

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Thanks Dave.

I usually don't advocate studying fake items to learn to identify what's real BUT multiple comparative shots like this actually help one see the similarity in the fakes and not just the bewildering variations.

Love it,

Dave

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The Rooster

No sweat gang. I hate to see anyone get burned on these fake Restrike Meyers.

 

Especially when there are still so many good genuine Meyer wing examples out there that are reasonably priced.

 

The sellers want hundreds of dollars for these fakes.

 

Beware !!!!

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The Rooster

Here is a link to Bobs fantastic site, showing an

 

authentic Meyer Glider Pilot Wing.

 

Notice the frosted finish on the back and also the cam on the pin.

 

That cam prevents the pin from openng all the way.

 

Also notice the the backs of the real wing are flat.

 

Look toward the tips of the wing on the black laq wings and the one where its been removed.

 

There are no concave areas on the real ones, like you see on the restrikes.

 

Link on Bobs site

 

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/gliderpilot/meyeraafglider.shtml

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13 hours ago, dmar836 said:

Thanks Dave.

I usually don't advocate studying fake items to learn to identify what's real BUT multiple comparative shots like this actually help one see the similarity in the fakes and not just the bewildering variations.

Love it,

Dave

Just to quibble a bit, I actually would humbly suggest that one of the best ways to study wings is to really know and understand the fakes.  I still spend as much time looking at fakes as I do the good wings.  I see it as two sides of the same coin.  There are a LOT of threads on NS Meyers on this forum. 

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I get it. I think that's why this thread surprised me - too see the variations of similar restrikes. Wings might feel a bit different to me. Few such posts exist as most are wings posted by onesies and twosies. A thumbs up or down often only applies to one example and that's hard to collect into a memory file for many(me).

I've told the story before of my father's friend who was old FBI. He said when learning to ID counterfeit bills, you never studied the fakes - only originals. That way a fake always looked off.

Seeing new collectors here and elsewhere cast a broad net, take an expensive chance on what they have learned to exist in rarity, an only then ask here if a helmet, patch, wing, whatever is good, only to be told it's yet another fake, has me wondering if studying the ever increasing variations of fakes doesn't "ruin the nose". I started the "provenance only" painted M-1 helmet thread because of this and had very few posted known "real"examples before it broke down into a "my favorite painted lid" thread.

Also, the variations in a lot of rare militaria has been difficult to substantiate. Wings have a lot of confusing things but there is universal truth in that they weren't all individualistic.

I hope you all keep this up - helps immensely.

Dave 

 

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One thing to note with the real Meyer wings in this pattern is that they can often be found with the Meyer hallmark printed in reverse.  So it reads REYEM on the shield.  You can see that here with this Liaison pilot wing on my site - Meyer Liaison Pilot  Also note the size of the font used for Sterling.  The reversed Meyer hallmark is authentic and a bit of a screw up on Meyer's part where the die was cut to read correctly which means it will stamp the wing in reverse.  This trips some people up and tricks them into thinking it's a fake.  Just another interesting aspect of collecting Meyer wings.  Patrick has a good explanation of this in another thread on the forum.

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I do remember the discussion of the small "sterling" font.

Can I ask, have any of you seen restrikes with either the reverse MEYER and/or the small "Sterling"?

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I don't recall seeing a fake with the smaller sterling mark or the reversed hallmark but I never say never anymore when it comes to fakes.  It's a constant battle trying to keep up.

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The Rooster

Keeping in mind the finish and flatness of the back of ww2 meyers

 

and keeping notice of the pin you should never get burned by a fake meyer. I learned about them exclusively on this forum by studying

 

all the many posts on here about Meyers and as a result Ive never picked up a meyer thats a stinker.

 

The backside of the good Meyer that I posted above has the logo reversed like Bob mentions.

 

But Im certain its a good one. In fact, the logo being reversed was one of the tells for me amoung others that it was a good wing.

 

I learned all about Meyers on here from you swell guys and Im a thanking you all.

 

Nothing like good info to set you on the right path !!!

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  • 5 months later...

I just had an opportunity to study and photograph what I believe is a Meyer restrike balloon wing, which is die struck, not cast.  Upon closer inspection, I observed a whole lot of similarities when compared to the excellent, original Meyer balloon wing on Bob's site, that has provenance, which to me means a rock-solid original baseline from which to make a comparison.  After studying this one, and comparing to the one on Bob's site (www.ww2wings.com), I firmly believe the same obverse die made both, although the piece is full of contradictions.  Bob was gracious enough to give me permission to use it for this post, but here is the link to the balloon wing anyway: http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/balloon/presleyjohnstonsrballoon.shtml

I've read on the forum somewhere that the person/people that made the restrikes only had the obverse die.  If true, this could very well be one of their creations, since I believe the obverse is the same as an original, but the reverse, although vaguely similar, is very poorly executed. 

The main reason I believe the same die made both are because of flaws/breaks in the die.  When you compare the obverses of the wings, you will find flaws/breaks in the exact same place on both pieces.  The first die flaw I wish to highlight is the tiny dot on the left wing. It is present on Bob’s wing as well.  The second is a series of lines at the top of the first three lower feathers at the lower right of the balloon, on the right wing, which are also on Bob’s wing.  There is an additional die break that has been referenced before on the forum to indicate restrike, which is not on Bob’s piece, although dies develop breaks throughout the life of the die, so in my opinion this is not a showstopper for saying they are not from the same die. There are also many, many more similarities that make me believe they are one in the same die. 

Other attributes:

The pin sticks out of the clasp the same length and the clasp appears the same as the piece on Bob's site. The pin only opens to about 91 degrees.

The poorly stamped Meyer Shield is a "reverse Meyer style (REYEM)”, not thought to be on restrikes; or are they?

The sterling mark is poorly stamped, and larger than the small one usually seen on Meyer originals.

There is a  blob of silver on the top edge of the left wing as observed from the reverse, which I believe is also a characteristic of a restrike?

In a previous life I ran an authentication service for Soviet Orders and Medals, most of which were serial numbered. For every piece I looked at from 1992-2005, I recorded every die flaw and break, along with many other aspects of each piece, including serial number.  By recording these flaws and breaks, as well as serial numbers and other characteristics, I was able to chart when the die flaws/breaks started, got bigger and more numerous, and then finally were replaced by a new die.  I had over 9,000 examples in my database when I handed my research to someone else.  Just by recording these aspects allowed me to predict the piece’s serial number just by looking at the flaws and breaks, which then helped in confirming/denying originality.

Anyway, I thought I’d share it with the rest of the wing nuts out there and get some opinions about it.  This piece is just perplexing.

Meyer Balloon - 1.jpeg

Meyer Balloon - 1.jpeg

presleyjohnstonsrballoonfrtlg-1.jpg

presleyjohnstonsrballoonbcklg-2.jpg

Meyer Balloon - 7.jpeg

Meyer Balloon - 5.jpeg

Meyer Balloon - 6.jpeg

Meyer Balloon - 8.jpeg

Meyer Balloon - 3.jpeg

Meyer Balloon rev - 1.jpeg

Meyer Balloon - 4.jpeg

Meyer Balloon A - 1.jpeg

Meyer Balloon A - 2.jpeg

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