Vietnam-era M1 paratrooper helmet

[elh1311]

I don't have the helmet in hand. Also, I'm not terribly knowledgeable on post-Korea helmets. Here is what I do know:

 

- it's a KW-era steel pot, just not sure if it's McCord or Motor Wheel. All I know is that the heat stamp starts with an "M", ends with a "2" and possibly a letter after that. 

 

- it has a mid-late Vietnam liner with a Vietnam-era chinstraps. 

 

- the 2/187 AIR tac marks on the helmet could be from anytime between the 1950's to yesterday. The only time after the Vietnam War, when the 101st (which the 187th was a part of) was no longer on jump status, but the 2/187 was, was between 1974 and 1983. 2/187 made up part of the airborne component of the 193rd Infantry Brigade in Panama. 

 

- I can find no evidence that the 187th in Vietnam applied this tac mark to the steel. Instead, they had Torii gate stamps on their helmet covers, though I don't know how long that was practiced for.

 

- It wasn't terribly expensive and I was thinking of doing a 187 ARCT tribute helmet in the neat future and, well, this was cheaper. 

 

Anyway, feel free to comment. Will update once it's in hand. 

 

PS I am of the opinion that most painted helmets you come across are fake. 

[PMAN12094]

I don’t think the shell has the right chin strap on it. It looks like it’s an infantry chin strap since it’s missing the buttons that snap in the liner.

[elh1311]

8 hours ago, PMAN12094 said:

I don’t think the shell has the right chin strap on it. It looks like it’s an infantry chin strap since it’s missing the buttons that snap in the liner.

Yep, definitely standard chinstraps and not in great shape either. Once I have it in hand, I'll have a better idea of how long the liner and the shell have been together.

[sgtdorango]

The reason i didnt like this helmet is the 187th stopped using these painted tac markings during the korean war and this helmet appears to be a vietnam era produced shell..hopefully im wrong and when you get it in hand you can find out the era of the shell.....mike

[elh1311]

1 hour ago, sgtdorango said:

The reason i didnt like this helmet is the 187th stopped using these painted tac markings during the korean war and this helmet appears to be a vietnam era produced shell..hopefully im wrong and when you get it in hand you can find out the era of the shell.....mike

I don't disagree with you one bit. I have no evidence that 187th tac marks were used after Korea. It does have the "M" in front of the heat stamp, so I have reason to believe that it is KW-era produced, though no way to ascertain a certain year. 

 

Your opinion in airborne helmets is highly respected and comes from a great wealth of knowledge. 

 

I am curious as to how prevalent fake Korea airborne helmets are as opposed to fake WWII airborne helmets. It seems like you can't swing a dead tree branch without hitting a "genuine" 506th helmet or 101st helmet in general. 

[PMAN12094]

3 hours ago, elh1311 said:

Yep, definitely standard chinstraps and not in great shape either. Once I have it in hand, I'll have a better idea of how long the liner and the shell have been together.

At least it’s a good liner from the looks of it. You could always slap a cover on it and get the right chin strap then you got a decent airborne helmet.

[P-59A]

This is my Vietnam M1C    

 

[P-59A]

KW 187th  M1C

[elh1311]

So here's the update. 

 

The lid is a KW-era McCord heat stamp M-302, which if we're to believe that the higher the number indicates a later manufacture date, would put it towards the end of the KW-era manufacturing window. I now have five KW-era McCords, the lowest being M-186 and the highest being M-326 B. . 

 

The paint is old but unusual. It's darker than the other four, which are all the same lighter OD. This color is more akin to the WW2 M1 paint. However, this lid has the original texture and as far as I can tell, this is the original paint. One thing I have noticed with the KW-era lids, especially the earlier numbered ones, is that they have two coats of paint: a pea green base coat and then the main coat. 

 

Depending on the light source, this one seems to follow the single layer of paint scheme. The best evidence is on the inside, at the dented portion. The paint on the inside of the helmet matches the outside. There are also some paint runs as well. 

 

The chinstraps are the Vietnam-era variety with the anchor rather than the "P" stamp. They were paratrooper chinstraps but the attaching portion has been cut off. 

 

The liner is in good condition, obviously used, with a DSA stamp on the nape strap which, I believe, coincides with a Vietnam-era produced liner. 

 

Finally, the tac marks. I've attached pics so everyone can have a look but when it comes to paint of this nature, I'm out of my realm. They appear to be old with no evidence of brush strokes. The rust stains on them seem to match with the type seen on the rest of the helmet. 

 

Overall, pretty happy with the helmet. I'm curious to see what others think. 

 

*last photo is a comparison of a virtually unissued KW McCord on the left and the helmet in question on the right. 

[manayunkman]

When did they change from cork to sand?

 

When were the tack marks painted on?

[elh1311]

1 minute ago, manayunkman said:

When did they change from cork to sand?

 

When were the tack marks painted on?

They stopped using cork in 1945. After that, it was sand. 

 

I have no idea when the tac marks were painted on. 

[Justin]

The markings are painted over stack marks, and the stack marks were done after the helmet was repainted (doesn't look like the factory paint.) 

 

That can't be good.

[P-59A]

This is a named KW 674th Field Artillery of the 187th AB M1C helmet. The M1C pot is a late WW2 war issue and was never repainted for the KW. In trying to figure out what it was I came across period photos of troopers with those tic marks. The photos show when they deployed out of Japan most all of them had regular M1 helmets with tics, not M1C's. Look at the rags used as chin straps. The tics were dropped fast as they made good targets to shoot at as seen in the photos taken in Korea. My liner is modified from a regular WW2 liner. The yokes were mounted behind the A washers.

 

[elh1311]

8 minutes ago, Justin said:

The markings are painted over stack marks, and the stack marks were done after the helmet was repainted (doesn't look like the factory paint.) 

 

That can't be good.

The question then becomes: why paint it with an older paint color? Seeing as it would be used later on, wouldn't it make sense to paint with the current approved paint color at the very least? 

 

It's a curious little helmet for sure. I mean, at least it's not 506th! Lol

[P-59A]

9 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

The question then becomes: why paint it with an older paint color? Seeing as it would be used later on, wouldn't it make sense to paint with the current approved paint color at the very least? 

 

It's a curious little helmet for sure. I mean, at least it's not 506th! Lol

Crap! I forgot I already linked this to your post.   : (

[elh1311]

8 minutes ago, P-59A said:

Crap! I forgot I already linked this to your post.   : (

Lol! It's cool and your helmet is really nice. 

[Justin]

30 minutes ago, elh1311 said:

The question then becomes: why paint it with an older paint color? Seeing as it would be used later on, wouldn't it make sense to paint with the current approved paint color at the very least? 

 

It's a curious little helmet for sure. I mean, at least it's not 506th! Lol

Your statement is confusing. What exactly do you mean painted with an old paint color??? 

 

I've seen a lot of comments about how certain colors are "Korean war" or "Vietnam" color. That's just not accurate. I have over 100 Vietnam helmets in my collection. Almost all of my real deal sets have been repainted, almost always a darker shade. 

[P-59A]

elh1311, The guy who wore my helmet was a replacement trooper and he was issued the late war M1C pot. My understanding is those first issue clip on chin straps were green, not black. The tic mark was dismissed early on because it was a target. The photographic record shows no troopers with those tics in combat in Korea after 1950.  The tic was a show off thing that faded fast. Your tics have no age to them and they do not line up with the photos of those first troopers in 1950 with sewn on chin straps. I do see clip on chin straps later on in Korea on the M1C helmets, but those helmets have no tics. From were I stand one does not match the other. The liner is not KW. It's more Vietnam era and as noted its not a M1C. 

[manayunkman]

5 minutes ago, Justin said:

Your statement is confusing. What exactly do you mean painted with an old paint color??? 

 

I've seen a lot of comments about how certain colors are "Korean war" or "Vietnam" color. That's just not accurate. I have over 100 Vietnam helmets in my collection. Almost all of my real deal sets have been repainted, almost always a darker shade. 

Or they repainted it with the only green they had.

[Justin]

2 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

Or they repainted it with the only green they had.

That's exactly my point. 

[P-59A]

10 minutes ago, Justin said:

Your statement is confusing. What exactly do you mean painted with an old paint color??? 

 

I've seen a lot of comments about how certain colors are "Korean war" or "Vietnam" color. That's just not accurate. I have over 100 Vietnam helmets in my collection. Almost all of my real deal sets have been repainted, almost always a darker shade. 

elh1311, If you look at my Vietnam M1C Pot you will see it was painted over from a yellowish green to a darker green. That is a Parish non magnetic pot that was made around 1968 for the Vietnam war. It has no sand texture to the outside. They came with the texture finish. Someone took it down to bare metal and repainted it and I suspect that was done in country because of the shade of green is a vehicle green.

[elh1311]

1 hour ago, Justin said:

Your statement is confusing. What exactly do you mean painted with an old paint color??? 

 

I've seen a lot of comments about how certain colors are "Korean war" or "Vietnam" color. That's just not accurate. I have over 100 Vietnam helmets in my collection. Almost all of my real deal sets have been repainted, almost always a darker shade. 

I'm not going to lie, your comments come off as a tad aggressive. I would implore you to read through the entire thread and see where precisely my thoughts lie. 

 

A comment was made about using the available color of paint. At no point did I make an assertion as to the provenance. Instead, I provided information as it was presented to me. With the helmet in hand, I can tell you that the paint on the helmet is one layer deep only. 

 

It would stand to reason that it's easier to paint over an existing coat of paint rather than stripping it away and applying a new coat of paint and texture. 

 

So there you have it. It is what it is as it pertains to the helmet. One thing to consider, for what I paid and for what it would cost to make a fake, the forger lost money. 

[elh1311]

1 hour ago, P-59A said:

elh1311, The guy who wore my helmet was a replacement trooper and he was issued the late war M1C pot. My understanding is those first issue clip on chin straps were green, not black. The tic mark was dismissed early on because it was a target. The photographic record shows no troopers with those tics in combat in Korea after 1950.  The tic was a show off thing that faded fast. Your tics have no age to them and they do not line up with the photos of those first troopers in 1950 with sewn on chin straps. I do see clip on chin straps later on in Korea on the M1C helmets, but those helmets have no tics. From were I stand one does not match the other. The liner is not KW. It's more Vietnam era and as noted its not a M1C. 

Okay, a few things to address. For one, it's tac not tic. Tac stands for Tactical Marking.

 

Two, the 187th tac mark was prevalent after 1950 as they were seen on 187th helmets during the combat jump in 1951 (Operation Tomahawk, March 1951). 

 

And yes, the KW-issued chinstraps were green metal hardware. Again, I have addressed this in my previous posts. I am fortunate enough to have a helmet with green metal hardware paratrooper straps. There obviously is a notable difference between them and Vietnam-era chinstraps, as I've noted above. 

 

The liner is not KW but instead Vietnam. That is readily apparent.

[P-59A]

This is a 187th  AB helmet that I would agree is correct. Not saying anything towards your helmet. Just saying this is solid.   

 

[P-59A]

Another one