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Toptex 3BM


horridohutch
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horridohutch

Hello Gentlemen

Hoping to find some help on a recent addition to my collection. I usually collect US Navy helmets but for obvious reasons I could not pass this one up. Its an attributed helmet to a F-106A project officer and in beautiful condition. The leather inside is nice but after 50 plus years is a little dry. I have been asking around and am hoping there is something that might be suggested for care, rather than restoration. I want this helmet to make it to posterity, it is most certainly deserving. I am also wondering if there is anywhere a database for the Toptex helmets, possibly using the serial number? 

    The skinny on the helmet is this, Colonel R Thomas Goetz wore this helmet from the early 60s to a point I assume when he retired. The mask is a MBU-5 dated to the mid 1960s. Mr Goetz flew F-86

F-106 and F-104 aircraft as I have been able to find out right now. Simply a wonderful example of a rare helmet and I am grateful to add it to my collection, hope you all are well during this time we are in. 

 

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phantomfixer

indeed a wonderful helmet...it is always great to see these rare, named helmets in such good condition, being preserved....like he took it off from his last flight..... 

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A major addition to your collection, no doubt, Hutch !
Its excellent condition, rarity, and the fact it's named with the attached history make it a treasure set.
 

All the 3BM examples I had seen so far were fitted with MS-22001 masks & the Hardman shell assy, so it's nice to see a late cross-strap MBU-5/P harness assy paired with it, using the Christmas Tree bayonets & receivers.

Side note for the dating : during the searches for my last writeup, I had found a couple of HGU-2A/P w/ MBU-5/P of the late 60's to early 70's customized with the same Christmas Tree bayonets and receivers (not the regular cast receivers), so, even if these setups were on the verge of disappearing in the early 70's, I guess your (much rarer) example still fits in this given period. I tend to concur, Col. Goetz might have flown with this helmet until his retirement.

 

Regarding the dry leather, there are creams (meant for purses, shoes, couches and coats) that nourish, softens -and thus help preserve- this fragile material with some success, I guess there's little risk in trying them !

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Airborne-Hunter

I would highly suggest to NOT apply anything to the leather. Leather products over time do more damage than not - look at the German helmet field for evidence. Any product will simply darken the leather and make it look odd. More so, the specific construction of the Toptex liner is one of leather over foam. The foam is a petroleum based polyurethane. It breaks down with exposure to moisture and petroleum products. Anything posed to the leather is likewise posed to the foam. I wouldn't risk anything. Don't touch it. 

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1 hour ago, Airborne-Hunter said:

More so, the specific construction of the Toptex liner is one of leather over foam.

The presence of foam changes everything indeed. Knowing this, I would totally agree with you, not touching it seems wiser.

Thanks for your input.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 months later...
  • 2 months later...

Your Toptex helmet is extremely interesting to me!  For many years, Johnny Knebel, a Convair test pilot lived directly across the street in Novato, California.   He flew the Pogo stick and had an unusual helmet made for use during vertical take-off and landing.   The helmet visor had a hinge on one side and therefore, opened on one side facilitating the ability to look at the ground during these maneuvers.  Johnny Knebel also tested the F-102 at Edwards Air Force Base.   While at Edwards AFB Johnny made a trip to Los Angeles, where he was fitted with a "LOMBARD" helmet.  I spoke to Johnny last month about this journey.  He told me that drove to Los Angeles for this helmet in 1952.  He could not recall, if he went to the University of Southern California or to Protection Inc. for the helmet.   In his front hall closet, there was a large bag containing several helmets, a large array of communication gear, adapters and oxygen masks.  He told me that he used a variety of communication gear when testing foreign aircraft.  I know that he flew a number of Soviet aircraft.  (I wonder if he had a helmet with the Convair decal?}  Over the years, I tried to obtain his helmets but I was not successful!   Johnny donated his flight gear to the Smithsonian last year.   I wish that I had photographed and documented his helmets when I had the opportunity.  I imagine that Johnny Knebel would have known Col. R. Thomas Goetz.  Johnny will be 101 years old this month and I will ask him if he remembers Col. Goetz.  Your helmet is fascinating, especially with the Convair decal......   Coincidentally, I knew Charles Lombard very well.  Charles gave me the first helmet he ever made!  I believe that this helmet represents the first modern flight helmet and is historically very significant.   I have at least a dozen "LOMBARD" helmets in my collection.  Most of my "LOMBARD" helmets were given to me by test pilots.   THANK YOU for sharing your helmet.  Dr.J.  Helmet man.

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Airborne-Hunter
16 minutes ago, Helmet man said:

Your Toptex helmet is extremely interesting to me!  For many years, Johnny Knebel, a Convair test pilot lived directly across the street in Novato, California.   He flew the Pogo stick and had an unusual helmet made for use during vertical take-off and landing.   The helmet visor had a hinge on one side and therefore, opened on one side facilitating the ability to look at the ground during these maneuvers.  Johnny Knebel also tested the F-102 at Edwards Air Force Base.   While at Edwards AFB Johnny made a trip to Los Angeles, where he was fitted with a "LOMBARD" helmet.  I spoke to Johnny last month about this journey.  He told me that drove to Los Angeles for this helmet in 1952.  He could not recall, if he went to the University of Southern California or to Protection Inc. for the helmet.   In his front hall closet, there was a large bag containing several helmets, a large array of communication gear, adapters and oxygen masks.  He told me that he used a variety of communication gear when testing foreign aircraft.  I know that he flew a number of Soviet aircraft.  (I wonder if he had a helmet with the Convair decal?}  Over the years, I tried to obtain his helmets but I was not successful!   Johnny donated his flight gear to the Smithsonian last year.   I wish that I had photographed and documented his helmets when I had the opportunity.  I imagine that Johnny Knebel would have known Col. R. Thomas Goetz.  Johnny will be 101 years old this month and I will ask him if he remembers Col. Goetz.  Your helmet is fascinating, especially with the Convair decal......   Coincidentally, I knew Charles Lombard very well.  Charles gave me the first helmet he ever made!  I believe that this helmet represents the first modern flight helmet and is historically very significant.   I have at least a dozen "LOMBARD" helmets in my collection.  Most of my "LOMBARD" helmets were given to me by test pilots.   THANK YOU for sharing your helmet.  Dr.J.  Helmet man.


John Knebel no longer lives in that house. They had a living estate sale at the house in late 2018/early 2019. The man saved everything and some incredible stuff came out of that sale. That house was one of the most incredible houses I have ever seen. 

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You are correct.  Johnny moved to a retirement community several years ago.   My parents moved from across the street about 15 years ago.  I have lived in Southern California since 1990, but have kept in contact with Johnny Knebel.  You are right, Johnny saved everything and held on to it!  The house was packed with stuff.   I did not know about the estate sale because I live so far away.  I wish had been there!   When we lived across the street, Johnny had his garage enlarged to pack in more stuff from floor to ceiling.  My Mother told me many times that Johnny would never get rid of his helmets.   Many retired military lived in that community.  My Father was a retired USAF LtCol.  Dr.J.  Helmetman 

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I am sorry that I did not answer the question, "How to preserve the leather of the TOPTEX helmet.  DO NOTHING!!!  Protect the helmet from further damage. Do not handle it.  Keep it out of direct sunlight and keep from high heat or moisture.  Most of my TOPTEX helmets are in glass cases.   DO NOT PUT ANYTHING ON THE LEATHER!  Dr.J. Helmetman

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  • 2 months later...
Kirkus Maximus
On 5/17/2021 at 7:36 PM, horridohutch said:

Hello Gentlemen

Hoping to find some help on a recent addition to my collection. I usually collect US Navy helmets but for obvious reasons I could not pass this one up. Its an attributed helmet to a F-106A project officer and in beautiful condition. The leather inside is nice but after 50 plus years is a little dry. I have been asking around and am hoping there is something that might be suggested for care, rather than restoration. I want this helmet to make it to posterity, it is most certainly deserving. I am also wondering if there is anywhere a database for the Toptex helmets, possibly using the serial number? 

    The skinny on the helmet is this, Colonel R Thomas Goetz wore this helmet from the early 60s to a point I assume when he retired. The mask is a MBU-5 dated to the mid 1960s. Mr Goetz flew F-86

F-106 and F-104 aircraft as I have been able to find out right now. Simply a wonderful example of a rare helmet and I am grateful to add it to my collection, hope you all are well during this time we are in. 

 

IMG_6065_1.JPG

IMG_6070_1.JPG

In short do nothing to it...advise following care as stated in the following

https://museumoffloridahistory.com/collections/caring-for-your-artifacts/artifact-care-series-leather/

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  • 1 year later...

Hi , 
Regarding the Toptex with the F-102 decal (San Diego) with the FC-787 number on the F-102, is there any way to identify the airplane, and possibly the original owner of the helmet? Is there a list of F-102 test pilots ?
Many thanks for your help!

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" ... is there any way to identify the airplane, and possibly the original owner of the helmet? Is there a list of F-102 test pilots ?"

 

> There may be a way to identify the specific aircraft from FC-787, but so far as I'm aware one would need the tail number to do that. What I did come across, which will seem pedestrian on its face, is this fairly extensive listing of references (bottom of page) to that specific airframe, and am hoping it might come in handy somehow: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convair_F-102_Delta_Dagger

 

 

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Hello, 
So I found the aircraft with the FC-787 markings. This was actually the YF-102A - model 8-90 # 53-1787. Here is a quick description (online sources): 

Designated Model 8-90, the first of four YF-102As (53-1787 to 1790) was rolled out at San Diego just 117 days after redesign had started. It was trucked out to Edwards AFB and took off on its maiden flight on December 20, 1954. On the next day, Mach 1 was easily exceeded, fully confirming the predictions of the area rule. It soon reached a top speed of Mach 1.2 in level flight. In addition, the aircraft could still keep on climbing after reaching 51,600 feet.

A milestone was reached on July 8, 1955, when a YF-102A fired six Falcon missiles and 24 unguided rockets in less than 10 seconds.

The first production Model 8-10 or F-102A (53-1791) flew on June 24, 1955 and was delivered to the Air Force five days later. It had a J57-P-23 engine.


Key test pilots included:
- John M. “Fitz” Fitzpatrick: Fitz joined Convair as an Engineering Test Pilot at the start of the F-102 program and participated in all phases of the F-102 and F-106 development
- John Knebel: After retiring from the Air Force as a lieutenant colonel, he was hired by Convair as a test pilot. He flight-tested the infamous XFY-1 Pogo, an experience he felt lucky to survive! He was also a test pilot on the F-102, B-36, and B-58.
- Philip M. Prophett: In 1954 he was named Convair's chief of F-102 / F-106 interceptor flight test at Edwards, and later ran tests of those fighters' air-to-air missile systems at Holloman
- Robert F. Titus: In March 1954, he began test pilot school. He spent six years in fighter test at Edwards AFB, California, flying the North American F-100 Super Sabre, the McDonnell F-101 Voodoo, the Convair F-102 Delta Dagger and F-106 Delta Dart, the Lockheed F-104 Starfighter, and the Republic F-105 Thunderstreak.

Convair_YF-102A_SN_53-1787_-Hot_Rod-_the_first_YF-102A_built_060922-F-1234S-027.jpg.webp

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To add to the list of test pilots, it seems that Richard L. Johnson, flew the first flight of the YF-102A on dec. 20th 1954 (he had also flown the first flight of the original YF-102 on October 24th 1953)
Additionally, Neil A. Armstrong, and John B. "Jack" McKay from the NACA (before it was named NASA) also tested the YF-102A, which was redesignated JF-102A in 1956.

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