3/506th PIR Named Officer's M1C Helmet with tactical markings for $6995.00

[MattS]

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-wwii-u-s-named-101st-airborne-506-pir-3rd-battalion-named-helmet?variant=26171898245

 

Looks like this sold recently, anyone here buy it? 

 

 

[6th.MG.BN]

Only seeing 10 rows of stitching on the chinstraps for starters. That would be enough of a red flag for me  @ that price.

Ken

[dmar836]

I could see the chin strap adjustment "buckle" had been mucked with.

I see no difference between this helmet and all the others on eBay.

I know they are sponsors but I have seen very little from them that would ever make me trust what they sell.

JMO

[twthmoses]

Lovely helmet, no doubt. To get me all cozy, warm and happy with a M1C shell, it needs to be a rear seam, manganese rim, movable loops, - with carbon rings, and a lot number at least +1120, preferable +1160.

 

This has to me, personal, too many red flags, not that it is not possible it real, just too many big ifs.

 

It is a front seam, stainless rim and a lot number of 774A. 95% for sure this was a fixed loop at its creation, which all shell chartaristic support. Close up image of the outside by the loops, will show the 2-and-3 weld points, two from the fixed loops and three additional for the movable loops. Sometimes it very hard to see, because of paint and texture but I am sure in this case. Meaning it was a fixed loop that had attached movable loops at one point. When that happened, is the point. It got carbon loops ring, which is good, pointing to wartime, but the holders, is not attached all the way to the rim, suggesting post war. I would say 1950’s at least.

 

All these ifs and a 506! Well….

[ken88]

You'd at least expect to see the cast buckles on the Westinghouse liner. Markings look way oversized for a late war lid, there's just too many red flags to justify this kind of price. 

[Justin]

Reproduction straps. A Westinghouse liner with Inland style yokes, it's definitely not a good one... 

[dmar836]

Why does the USMF accept sponsorship from these people? I suppose they claim ignorance and only sell items "as found" and "as they are told". But we, and they, undoubtedly know better and after so many similar circumstances and so many years of experience we all accept this? They have done this far too long to have been deceived by this helmet yet they had no part in it?

They should be one of the black sheep of the collector hobby, not supported by it.

It might even be assumed that this type of deception is endorsed by this forum.

I, for one, say it is NOT nor do I think we should look the other way while this repeatedly happens.

Dave

[doyler]

a half second look at the spade is all you need..not even close to a original. THe rest is cherries in the pie. 

[Bugme]

On 4/21/2021 at 9:22 AM, MattS said:

Looks like this sold recently, anyone here buy it? 

 

Anyone here buy it??? Like they'd admit that? Lol!

[Bugme]

16 hours ago, dmar836 said:

Why does the USMF accept sponsorship from these people?

 

Do you think we police every advertiser? If you have a concern, report your concern to one of the Admin's, specifically Forum Manager, via a PM.

 

The alternative is that you can trash talk the forum on an obscure thread and hope that one of us maybe, might, by chance, happen to see this? 

[MattS]

9 hours ago, Bugme said:

 

Anyone here buy it??? Like they'd admit that? Lol!

Judging by the responses, probably not...

[MAW]

The dealer/company in question hits shows and buys stuff, and has pickers that bring them stuff all the time.  They've bought groupings and individual pieces from me which were all 100% good.  So, I can most definitely verify that not everything they sell is fake or wrong.  Usually high priced, but that's for them to decide.  Once they own it, they know their market and can do as they wish.

 

I have found two...count them...two...legit painted WW2 helmets out of the woodwork in 40 years.  Neither of them are from the bandwagon of brothers regiment.  

 

Anytime you see such a thing, the descriminator in your brain needs to be turned to the highest possible setting; anything else is fantasy world.

 

To suggest that the company should be sanctioned is just a bit of an overreaction.  Look for the good stuff and pass over the suspect.

[manayunkman]

What are the forum rules?

 

What happens to forum members who sell fakes?

 

Who gets reprimanded and who gets a pass?

 

The rules need to be consistent and not situational.

 

Thats what this really boils down to, a double standard?

 

If they get a pass then we all should get a pass and banned members should be invited back.

 

Or should we have 2 sets of rules one for members and one for sponsors?

 

But that would be inconsistent and hypocritical.

 

Am I making sense?

 

 

[MattS]

I'll come clean, I had serious doubts about this helmet when I saw it for sale, and hesitated on posting it until after it was sold. So I started this thread asking if anyone here bought it hoping the new owner would chime in and the forum could express their concerns. At least two forum bans in recent memory ("jkash23686" Jamie Kashetta, and "Screamingeagles101" Dominick Consolazo) were for creating and selling fake WW2 helmets. Is the difference here that IMA is only the seller and not the creator of this fraudulent M1C? I don't know. 

[Dogsbody]

43 minutes ago, manayunkman said:

What are the forum rules?

 

What happens to forum members who sell fakes?

 

Who gets reprimanded and who gets a pass?

 

The rules need to be consistent and not situational.

 

Thats what this really boils down to, a double standard?

 

If they get a pass then we all should get a pass and banned members should be invited back.

 

Or should we have 2 sets of rules one for members and one for sponsors?

 

But that would be inconsistent and hypocritical.

 

Am I making sense?

 

 

Very much so.

 

[dmar836]

Apologies. I though I was just stating the obvious.

[manayunkman]

For me this isn’t about the seller it’s about consistency, whether you make junk and sell it or just sell junk, on the forum.

 

What are the rules and how do they apply?  is a fair question.

Are the rules principles that apply to all or only to some members?

 

I’m with Bugme, message a mod when you see something. 

[dmar836]

Well, "forum" means something different to me. I wish I could just erase it.

[manayunkman]

dmar that’s a legit question you asked.

 

Another question is did they sell it or remove it and called it sold.

[Forum Manager]

Instead of complaining about it here and accusing the Forum of "sanctioning" sponsors that sell fakes, did anyone on here take the time to actually contact IMA and tell them what was or could be wrong with it? I am sure the answer is no, as it is much easier to complain here and not have to be responsible for the accusations. I have seen IMA take things down many times when it was proven an item might be bad. We all make mistakes and don't know everything about militaria, but if you are perfect and never make mistakes, you are better then us mere mortals.

[MattS]

I have done exactly that in the past and they have taken items down, but this was sold by the time I got to posting this thread.

Regardless, it's not my position to tell them anything as I have zero credentials that would lead anyone to believe I am an expert in anything, especially 506th M1C helmets. I would think a company called International Military Antiques would know what they are looking at and vet their own items BEFORE as they are the ones responsible for setting the sales price (this wasn't an auction, the price was $6995.00 as determined by them). 

 

But caveat emptor, right? 

All these items are 100% legit (especially Jimmy Stewart's enlistedman's cap) because no one contacted them... I guess. 

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-garrison-cap-named-to-two-star-major-general-george-s-patton-with-auction-receipt.html?trk_contact=7OEJKUH86KG3HEO7NQSJ56FQ9K&trk_msg=GEO3AV3CFUO419M7BJ2QUJONT0&utm_campaign=20150321&utm_content=20150321&utm_medium=Email&utm_source=Listrak&utm_term= Original U.S. WWII Garrison Cap Named to Two Star Major General George S. Patton with Auction Receipt&variant=26169011973

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-colonel-jonathan-skinny-wainwright-uniform-set-medal-of-honor-winner?variant=26157026373

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-army-ike-jacket-named-to-brigadier-general-theodore-roosevelt-jr-medal-of-honor-recipient?variant=26169010565

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-colonel-jonathan-skinny-wainwright-uniform-set-medal-of-honor-winner?variant=26157026373

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-naval-aviator-david-mccampbell-named-tunic-and-visor-hat-set-medal-of-honor-recipient?variant=26169118789

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-navy-commander-raymond-spruance-named-uniform-set?variant=26168254853

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/u-s-wwii-actor-jimmy-stewart-named-usaaf-captain-tunic-and-visor-hat?variant=26156669637

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwii-captain-james-stewart-peaked-visor-cap-usaaf?variant=18867454509125

 

https://www.ima-usa.com/products/original-u-s-wwi-general-william-mitchell-named-tunic-and-visor-hat-with-letter-of-provenance?variant=26168219269

 

Oh wait, we did discuss these here: 

 

[vintageproductions]

I have sent them many messages when something is bad and it is taken down right away.

 

They make mistakes just like anyone else.

 

But then again, I don't troll their website looking for just mistakes, I can enjoy all the original items that no one talks about.

[MattS]

17 hours ago, Bugme said:

Do you think we police every advertiser?

 

8 hours ago, MAW said:

To suggest that the company should be sanctioned is just a bit of an overreaction.  Look for the good stuff and pass over the suspect.

 

52 minutes ago, Forum Manager said:

We all make mistakes and don't know everything about militaria, but if you are perfect and never make mistakes, you are better then us mere mortals.

 

4 minutes ago, vintageproductions said:

They make mistakes just like anyone else.

 

Looks like this thread is done. Thanks for your time. 

 

[mdk0911]

sounds like IMA makes many mistakes?

[tarbridge]

We try our best to police our sales section and believe it, we have removed privileges from some members for unscrupulous practices. Some, have been removed from our forum altogether after warnings and chances. 

We attempt to spend our efforts in the protection of our membership. 

As stated, contact the staff if you see something inappropriate or fraudulent. If you see a site selling an obvious fraud here...contact them, then contact us. We can try to help if possible. We are getting chastised for a item already sold which is a little hard to place blame on us.

The staff can't see everything or has the time to scour every add. Call the Military Trader and tell them an ad running has a fake helmet and check the response, or your local paper has a ad with a repainted car but the seller is not divulging that fact...see what they say.

We try to do everything we can for members...sometimes we fail...it is just a fact.But we try.

Feel free to contact me with any concerns where you think somebody is being overlooked for selling fake or bogus items...we need proof and not assumptions. 

Robert Wilson