34th Infantry Painted M1 with Inland Airborne Liner

[elh1311]

18 hours ago, Blueprint said:

Judging from your pictures:

 

Regular Infantry. 

I know about three airborne helmets which are all paired with regular M1 shells (all can be seen in Pieter Oostermans Book of „The M1 Helmet“).

 

And regarding your „Veteran Story“: as to my knowledge elements of the 82nd Airborne jumped into Algeria and the 82nd was also in Italy. 
 

 

 

the 2/509 PIR (later redesignated 509th PIB) jumped into Algeria and served as a separate unit in Italy and Southern France before being attached to 82nd during the Battle of the Bulge, after which it was disbanded and survivors assigned to the 82nd as replacements.  

[dmar836]

*Brake pump*

[Blueprint]

Yes! That’s what I meant with my earlier post. 
 

But nevertheless: You have there a great looking lid! 

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

3 hours ago, elh1311 said:

the 2/509 PIR (later redesignated 509th PIB) jumped into Algeria and served as a separate unit in Italy and Southern France before being attached to 82nd during the Battle of the Bulge, after which it was disbanded and survivors assigned to the 82nd as replacements.  

Might be on to something there with the 509th, they used medical tape letters on the back of their helmets to help companies link up after the drop in Operation Dragoon

 

 

"Capt. Bud Siegel performs final jumpmaster checks of his troopers prior to boarding for the invasion of Southern France. Photo taken 14 Aug 1944 at Follonica Airfield, Italy."

A Co 509th PIB

Photo from https://www.509thgeronimo.org/soldiersiegelet/soldiersiegelet.htm

 

These were a barn find in Saint Tropez France by forum member gingerbread, although the tape looks more like a "8" on an alarm clock, they are a "B" for Baker Company

 

I don't have a photo but I know Headquarters and Headquarters Company used a "H'

 

So I see a possible connection, however I think there are still several holes with this idea:

1: I don't believe they used these markings before Operation Dragoon, which would be after Mr. Elliott went home

2: E 2/509 PIR became B 509 PIB on December 10th 1943, several months before the cotton chin cup was adopted, much less manufactured and in-use in theatre. 

3: As far as I know these markings were only applied to helmet shells, not liners 

[Persian Gulf Command]

Regarding the OP helmet.  Need to remember that all helmets and liners have the possibility of having been switched or re-matched over the last 75+ years.  WW2 soldiers, people on the home front, kids playing in the back yard, collectors have all had their hands on these items.

 

If you collect M1 Garands the odds of having an original with all its parts is unlikely.  Perhaps the M1 Helmet, although more likely to exist in its original configuration, being completely original could always be questioned.

[dmar836]

If a weapon has the correct parts, unless stolen by the vet, it's been built that way by a collector/restorer.

[elh1311]

17 hours ago, dmar836 said:

If a weapon has the correct parts, unless stolen by the vet, it's been built that way by a collector/restorer.

I have an M1 carbine that matching serial numbers on the receiver and trigger group as well as the stock. Well, had. Sold it to my Dad years ago. 

[dmar836]

I think mine matches as well but I'll have to check. When they are stripped them at the depot the serviced parts were mixed and reassembled from the parts bin. I'm fairly certain, a matching issued gun unless never going through a depot, is a rarity. Not sure how they would check a weapon to see if in spec without disassembling it and then...

Dave

[dmar836]

Actually, an armory rebuild discussion would be interesting but I'm afraid we ventured off topic.

Dave

[elh1311]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:45 AM, dmar836 said:

Actually, an armory rebuild discussion would be interesting but I'm afraid we ventured off topic.

Dave

Isn't that usually the case though? Lol. I'm terrible at going off topic. Any new info to share about the original topic? 

[Blueprint]

Reading through Pieter Oostermans book about the M2 Paratrooper Helmet it says that "It seems only a percentage of the Inland jump liners were actually used with M2 steel shells as many were paired with regular M1 steel shells".

 

So if he is true about it, the combination of your Inland liner with that steel shell is not so uncommonly. 

[897 ORD]

On 4/13/2021 at 12:32 PM, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

Might be on to something there with the 509th, they used medical tape letters on the back of their helmets to help companies link up after the drop in Operation Dragoon

 

"Capt. Bud Siegel performs final jumpmaster checks of his troopers prior to boarding for the invasion of Southern France. Photo taken 14 Aug 1944 at Follonica Airfield, Italy."

A Co 509th PIB

Photo from https://www.509thgeronimo.org/soldiersiegelet/soldiersiegelet.htm

 

These were a barn find in Saint Tropez France by forum member gingerbread, although the tape looks more like a "8" on an alarm clock, they are a "B" for Baker Company

 

I don't have a photo but I know Headquarters and Headquarters Company used a "H'

 

So I see a possible connection, however I think there are still several holes with this idea:

1: I don't believe they used these markings before Operation Dragoon, which would be after Mr. Elliott went home

2: E 2/509 PIR became B 509 PIB on December 10th 1943, several months before the cotton chin cup was adopted, much less manufactured and in-use in theatre. 

3: As far as I know these markings were only applied to helmet shells, not liners 

 

Fascinating, thank you for sharing.  I definitely agree that it is unlikely the liner was used in Dragoon IF the veterans story is true, but the use of medical tape to mark large letters on the back of their helmets in medical tape is a fascinating connection.  I've seen general insignia and follow me bars marked in tape, but no letters as shown.

 

Persian Gulf Command and dmar836, I definitely hear your point on put-togethers.  Could have been mixed up during the war, after the war, or even somewhat recently, without confirmation from the vet who knows what could have taken place that brought these components together.

 

Blueprint, good point and thank you for citing Peter Oosterman's book.  I have his book on the M1 helmet, but do not have any references on paratrooper helmets since until now they were out of the scope of my collection.  I remember reading something similar, but could not remember where I read it.

 

Regarding the name I was given, I have found 5 matches and 2 lead contenders.  I have not found any associated divisions yet, but will keep looking.  For now, I plan to keep the full set together and keep it in my collection as-is.  While strange, it definitely fires up the imagination as to what this helmet has seen!

 

Thank you all for your help and opinions on this one, much appreciated!