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WW1 DSC mystery help please


R.S.
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So you might have seen this on ebay before they removed it . Anyway I contacted the seller we came to a large amount of dosh and now its mine. So The discharge paper had disintegrated  and he threw it in the trash! what is is so no point getting upset about it. So we have a DSC a WW1 victory medal with Salvage bar and a Purple Heart with second award which is missing. Also a Red Cross medal . So from the avaliable information can we find out who it belonged too . We have a Valentines card. He says he met a waitress from R . Kiss Emma for me signed Beso and its adressed to Mrs Bert Wait of Robinson W ? A photo of the Troop ship Sheridan . A photo of Soldiers or Marines and a couple of sailors on a boat heading to France. A photo of an old lady taken in Washington. A post card of the attack on Zeebrugge . A 1935 copy of the San Diego times kept possibly because of the Navy info on the back. An insurance letter to George D Wood who did not win a DSC unless its Dolph Wood . And a photo of what was left of the diuscharge paper . So If you have any ideas who it was awarded to I will buy you a beer and would be grateful. Cant be many Navy salvage boys with 2 purple Hearts and a DSC Rob.

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Salvage Sailor

A nice mystery to unravel 

 

I'd say you won't get much help from the photo of the USAT SHERIDAN (United States Army Transport) as she and her sister ships were assigned to the Pacific and Far East, transporting the troops between China, the Philippines, Hawaii and the West Coast from the turn of the Century through the 1920's.  She did transport the elements of the Czech Legion from Vladivostok to the US over several voyages, but that was on the other side of the world, far from the Western Front.

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Bill it could be 6 1133 or B 113 . Thank you Salvage sailor I will forget the ship . Tell me can an Army soldier get the victory medal with Navy Salvage bar or is it just Naval personnel . Thanks Rob

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Salvage Sailor

I do not believe that they qualify for a SALVAGE clasp.  Here's the criteria, "Salvage: Salvage duty performed on the seas"

 

Salvage     817 (issued)  For service on such duty from 06 April 1917 to 11 Nov. 1918.

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So the guy was Probably a Marine or a Sailor . I notice a lot of Sailors attached to the Marines in the DSC winners lists.  Rob

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dhcoleterracina

I would start with the DSC. Did it come with a split brooch?  The number does not look like others that I have seen. 

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FT.Monmouth1943

This might be a total shot in the dark, but when I looked up George D Wood, I found that he served in the Army but never went overseas, so I believe theres a good chance that the Army disharge paper was his. He also had an older brother named William S Wood, but I have not been able to find anything about his service. Hope this potential lead helps.

 

- Jakob

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The sailors attached to the Marines in WWI, especially ones likely to be awarded a DSC would have been Corpsman providing medical service at the front. I don’t see anything in the grouping suggesting this was a Marine or Corpsman (in particular the Victory Medal has none of the bars that would have been on a Fourth Marine Brigade Medal). Good luck. 

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USMCR79
3 hours ago, dhcoleterracina said:

I would start with the DSC. Did it come with a split brooch?  The number does not look like others that I have seen. 

I don't think that the numbering on the DSC is correct compared to the ones I have seen and are in my collection - I don't think the rolls cover this 

 

Bill

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dhcoleterracina

I think that before you expend too much time researching this medal that we actually confirm that this medal is legit. The WW1 era DSC's had a full brooch not a split brooch. I agree with Bill that the number doesn't match the crosses in my collection as well. 

 

I expect that the ebay listing is gone forever?  

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The address on the card is not Robinson W it is Robinson Ill, that is an actual place. Also just because you get things together does mean they belong together. The Navy did not get the Purple Heart until 1942, only the Army got it in 1932, and the oak leaf cluster on the ribbon bar is an Army thing, the Navy used stars. The picture of four women has one identified as "me" so we could easily have a whole family's stuff here. The medals could have been to two brother or cousins or whet ever. Unless you can some how tie the Victory medal and DSC to the same person I don't think you can ever figure out who it was. Besides the missing Purple Heart there may also be an additional missing Victory Medal that goes with the DSC for the ribbon bar.      

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unclegrumpy
16 hours ago, warguy said:

The sailors attached to the Marines in WWI, especially ones likely to be awarded a DSC would have been Corpsman providing medical service at the front. I don’t see anything in the grouping suggesting this was a Marine or Corpsman (in particular the Victory Medal has none of the bars that would have been on a Fourth Marine Brigade Medal). Good luck. 

 

A Navy Corpsman as described above, if wounded, could have received an Army Purple heart before WW I...just as wounded Marine could have.   That said, I agree with the other posters in this thread that it is highly unlikely that this is the case in this instance.

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Hello chaps thank you for all your answers and replies. It would appear this is probably a completely fabricated group of items including the quite impressive verdigris, rust and everything else . Wether the medals are real I dont know probably not . Never mind lesson learned . I shall stick to British and German stuff . Rob

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Airborne-Hunter

Isn't 61xxx number too high for WW1? Also the numbering does not match any numbering on any of my numbered DSC's. IMHO someone made this group to deceive as the split brooch is not appropriate for any numbered DSC I know of and the numbering does not appear legit to me. 

Also for what its worth, someone has been putting together a lot of not right Navy Cross groups on ebay and at least two of them have been passed back and fourth on the forum/US Militaria Collector FB page. I believe all these groups are coming out of central California somewhere and they all seem to have unusual characteristics....more specifically odd levels of corrosion and no name. Whoever is doing this is an intelligent fellow and knows at least something about medals. 

Also for what its worth, that discharge document does not look like what I would expect for a water damaged original. In fact I tend to think that was made relatively recently and with water-based inks. This could be evidenced if it was in hand. Conveniently, it is not available for inspection. Conveniently, the damage to the discharge document is all around the edge and despite being folded does not carry over to any corresponding opposing side(s).

Also for what it is worth, I would presume the discharge document would have been stored with the medals which came in the original victory medal box. Why does the victory medal box lack seemingly similar moisture damage? Why is there no mold/ink/corrosion transfer from the medals to the box?

Best ABN

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KASTAUFFER

The top ribbon ring on WWI DSCs is also smaller and completed solid . They dont have a split in the ring.

 

Kurt

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dhcoleterracina

So a guy with a bogus DSC creates a grouping with ribbons papers and photos. He fabricates the group to look like something that been sitting in a footlocker in a wet basement for decades. When it looks believable, he posts it on ebay knowing that it will be pulled by the ebay police but also knowing the listing will have been seen by many collectors. Because we know that they will pull certain listings, we jot down the seller's info in case it disappears (I've done this) and several collectors contact him via PM on another item he's selling to ask what happened and make an offer. The highest offer ends up making a deal outside of ebay protection and has no recourse when he finds out he's been cheated.

 

Fair summary?   

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manayunkman

You can’t do that too often before eBay puts you on suspension for posting items against their policy.

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Actually, the circular impression carries over to corresponding "panels" of paper correctly and seems like it was folded to fit in the bottom of the delapidated box. A raised edge of the Victory medal planchet seems like a likely possibility to have made this impression. And, as far as patina goes, rusting the backside of a ribbon bar with chemicals and not damaging the front would be very difficult. Impossible, no, but difficult. As far as things coming out of one area and all in the same condition.....about 5 years ago, I went to a great antique show in central OH....came upon a dealer's table full of military items, but all looking like they've seen better days. The dealer had purchased several storage containers filled with years of one person's hoardings. Stored poorly and in a Mid-West climate. So, the way I see it here is not so cut and dry. Yes, there are certainly weird things going on in the group, but I'm not ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater just yet. I will say that the numbering on the DSC looks odd and the font looks odd as well, but there are ones more well versed in this area. As far as the WW1 Vic and the DSC being awarded to the same man, hmmmm....dunno, I would lean more toward two family members in 2 different branches of service. If one wanted to really stretch the story, they could have re-ribboned the DSC at a later time using a different brooch. I would further investigate the family tree before rushing to any conclusion....just my .02.

M.

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I wouldn't completely toss the group, but I agree that there appears to be at least two, if not three people's worth of medals in the pile. 

 

And I agree that the numbering on the DSC is not what it should look like. I have a hunch it was re-numbered at some point. But why? The brooch change can be explained...the original one fell off and this one replaced it. But renumbering? That's an odd one.

 

It's an odd batch of stuff. There's probably a story to it all...but I don't know if any of us will ever be able to conclusively figure it out. 

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