Are uniforms with holes and patches less desirable?

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

Hi All,

Here’s a question that has been perplexing me since I started collecting uniforms: Why do uniforms  with holes or patches in them seem to be less desirable?  To me, it seems like they would be more desirable, as they are more likely to have seen combat.
 

Take this Vietnam era shirt on eBay for example. I’m not interested in it, but it’s been on there for months.  The price is good, it has a DSA number indicating it was manufactured in 1964, and it has both a left SSI and right SSI (combat patch) of units that participated in Vietnam war.  However, there are a few holes and patches in it, making me wonder if that’s the reason it’s not selling.  Thoughts?

[FT.Monmouth1943]

Out of curiosity, how much is the seller asking? The OD green, merrowed edge patches, and US made CIB are more consistent with stateside worn shirts, especially being worn on an OG-107 shirt. They also make this a "late-war" piece. With that being said, these shirts were still worn in country, but patched jungle jackets and shirts with theater made patches are obviously more desirable. Also, is that name tape hand-written?

 

- Jakob

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

7 minutes ago, FT.Monmouth1943 said:

Out of curiosity, how much is the seller asking? The OD green, merrowed edge patches, and US made CIB are more consistent with stateside worn shirts, especially being worn on an OG-107 shirt. They also make this a "late-war" piece. With that being said, these shirts were still worn in country, but patched jungle jackets and shirts with theater made patches are obviously more desirable. Also, is that name tape hand-written?

 

- Jakob

The seller is asking $49.99 for it.  I didn’t realize the patches were merrowed edge, indicating it was a “late war” uniform.  I thought that, because the shirt was made in 1964, it would have been “early war”.  I now understand this not to be the case.  The name tag does seem to be hand written in another  picture.  Also, can you help me understand what “theater made” means?

[FT.Monmouth1943]

That explains it. At $50 that is going to be a tough sell. Just because it was made one year, doesn’t mean it wasn’t worn later. These shirts stayed in service for years. 
 

And theater made refers to things that were made in country. So if there were Vietnamese made patches on there, they’d be considered “theater made” patches.

 

- Jakob
 

 

[Mr.Jerry]

It also looks like the name was "inked" over on the name tape that would detract from the value.

We usually sell the OG-107s like this for $10-20.

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

Oh...I see. Thank you.

[TheCrustyBosun]

I recently purchased a WWII USAAF summer flight suit. It has at least 16 repairs that all appear to be period-correct. I personally love the suit. I don’t mind repairs on field uniforms, and outer-wear such as coveralls and flight suits because they’re intended to take a beating and protect the uniform underneath. They’re “work clothes”. They tell a story. They’ve “been there”.  My suit apparently saw a lot of use. I don’t know if it was all with the same individual, but they got their money’s worth out of it for sure. 

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

So, it sounds like at least some people don’t mind holes in the uniform and appreciate them, like I do.

[QED4]

If you like holes and patches I have a used car you might be interested in, its for sure been around it that is what you like.

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

Hahaha! So, I’m guessing you’re saying holes and patches may make the uniform less desirable and worth less?

[TheCrustyBosun]

4 minutes ago, Amateur Vietnam Collector said:

Hahaha! So, I’m guessing you’re saying holes and patches may make the uniform less desirable and worth less?

I would say it effects the value for sure. I would expect a pristine original item to be priced higher than than one in lesser condition.  With that said, it’s only worth what someone will pay for it. There’s a right buyer for everything. 

[TheCrustyBosun]

40 minutes ago, QED4 said:

If you like holes and patches I have a used car you might be interested in, its for sure been around it that is what you like.

I feel differently about cars. HAHA!  Although, some “barn finds” are worth more when “left alone”. It’s only original once, less is more, etc. 

[dmar836]

If a named item has actual combat damage that is provable - shown in photos, etc. - it could be worth even more. One with random holes could have just happened working under QED4's car. That detracts, unfortunately.

[FT.Monmouth1943]

When it comes to these shirts, I would disagree. Good condition, even pristine examples of OG-107 shirts with no insignia are more common than you think since these weren’t used nearly as often in country as jungle fatigues. Even a really beat up and used patched out OG-107 shirt can be worth a lot more than a pristine one with no insignia. It really just depends on what’s on the shirt.

 

- Jakob

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

That makes sense to me.  I’ve noticed that the jungle jackets go for a lot more than the OG-107s, even when in pristine condition with no insignia.  I guess that’s because the OG-107s were produced for a longer period of time.

[PMAN12094]

3 hours ago, TheCrustyBosun said:

I recently purchased a WWII USAAF summer flight suit. It has at least 16 repairs that all appear to be period-correct. I personally love the suit. I don’t mind repairs on field uniforms, and outer-wear such as coveralls and flight suits because they’re intended to take a beating and protect the uniform underneath. They’re “work clothes”. They tell a story. They’ve “been there”.  My suit apparently saw a lot of use. I don’t know if it was all with the same individual, but they got their money’s worth out of it for sure. 

I always think repairs tells story of the uniform. Maybe it was in an interesting battle or just got damaged during a field exercise either way I always like to get field repaired uniforms. Most people seem to pass them up but I usually will buy them if there at the right price that is.

[Blacksmith]

As others have mentioned, wear is simply wear, unless you have a way of proving when / how.

 

I had a salty USMC P44 HBT top, that really ‘looked the part’.  Frayed cuffs, worn elbows, faded, etc - “island fresh”.

 

After I bought it, I felt a lump in the pocket, and discovered three acorns in the pocket.  Seems the veteran was wearing it to do yard work in.

 

:)

 

 

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

1 hour ago, dmar836 said:

If a named item has actual combat damage that is provable - shown in photos, etc. - it could be worth even more. One with random holes could have just happened working under QED4's car. That detracts, unfortunately.

Hahaha!  QED4 needs to stop trying to look cool in a uniform while working on his car.  I get you...provable holes would definitely increase the value.  Photos would be difficult to come by, unless you knew the person.  Thanks for the advice.

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

5 hours ago, FT.Monmouth1943 said:

That explains it. At $50 that is going to be a tough sell. Just because it was made one year, doesn’t mean it wasn’t worn later. These shirts stayed in service for years. 
 

And theater made refers to things that were made in country. So if there were Vietnamese made patches on there, they’d be considered “theater made” patches.

 

- Jakob
 

 

Thank you for following up.  

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

44 minutes ago, PMAN12094 said:

I always think repairs tells story of the uniform. Maybe it was in an interesting battle or just got damaged during a field exercise either way I always like to get field repaired uniforms. Most people seem to pass them up but I usually will buy them if there at the right price that is.

That’s what I like to think.  Aren’t you worried about resale value, though? 

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

25 minutes ago, Blacksmith said:

As others have mentioned, wear is simply wear, unless you have a way of proving when / how.

 

I had a salty USMC P44 HBT top, that really ‘looked the part’.  Frayed cuffs, worn elbows, faded, etc - “island fresh”.

 

After I bought it, I felt a lump in the pocket, and discovered three acorns in the pocket.  Seems the veteran was wearing it to do yard work in.

 

:)

 

 

That’s too funny. 😂 I’m certain the uniform I own with holes in it was not used to do yard work—he doesn’t do manual labor. 

[dmar836]

I watched a few of those MoH docs on Youtube the other day(can never watch just one). A longer one of a 4th Mar Div vet said the trouser knees always went out early(enough to sun burn them in his case) and the shoulders always separated (pointing to his trap area). He was on Saipan 37 days. Makes me wonder how many items we pick up actually saw combat. I would think 2-3 days on an island with the crawling, digging, and the sweat and moisture would be about all utilities could take without quite a bit of damage.. 

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

Well, based on what you guys have said, it sounds like I really got burned.  I bought a really cool OG-107 off Facebook Marketplace.  I don't want to show pictures of it for a variety of reasons.  When I received it, there were a lot of holes and patches that weren't disclosed in pictures or any of the questions I asked the guy before purchasing (I didn't ask if there were holes in it).  The guy seemed reputable, because he has a five star review and a militaria storefront.  He said he'd refund me, but was going to charge me a restocking fee.  Oh well, I've learned there are some people out there that aren't exactly truthful.   

[Amateur Vietnam Collector]

4 minutes ago, dmar836 said:

I watched a few of those MoH docs on Youtube the other day(can never watch just one). A longer one of a 4th Mar Div vet said the trouser knees always went out early(enough to sun burn them in his case) and the shoulders always separated (pointing to his trap area). He was on Saipan 37 days. Makes me wonder how many items we pick up actually saw combat. I would think 2-3 days on an island with the crawling, digging, and the sweat and moisture would be about all utilities could take without quite a bit of damage.. 

 

I've been meaning to ask that.  How likely is it that any of these uniforms we buy saw combat?  As you said, someone else told me that the utilities only lasted a few days.  

[Blacksmith]

45 minutes ago, Amateur Vietnam Collector said:

 

I've been meaning to ask that.  How likely is it that any of these uniforms we buy saw combat?  As you said, someone else told me that the utilities only lasted a few days.  

I personally think, unless they come from an unquestionable source, we're left to guess on the combat question.  If that's something that is important to a collector, maybe other items would be less elusive.  Take canteens for example.  While there are still no guarantees, you generally were only issued one of those.  So, if it's ID'd, and the veteran was in some scrapes, there's a good chance his canteen was too.  Same could be said about helmets, and some other select items.  Again, there will always be exceptions.  

 

In terms of how long field uniforms ("utilities") lasted, there are numerous variables there.  I do like the reference that dmar836 posted above, regarding Saipan.  I interviewed many WWII Marine combat veterans over the years, and we talked about gear regularly.  One Marine that I spent a lot of time with, said their "dungarees" (as he called them), lasted about two weeks on the islands - and he participated in four campaigns, to include Peleliu and Okinawa.