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Gold Air Gunner


doyler
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21 minutes ago, ram957 said:

I know Gold Pilot wings were worn by Instructors..perhaps this if from a Gunnery Instructor ?

 

Was thinking the same possibly. Just wanted to get some opinions. Thanks for commenting.

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That is a great looking wing Ron. I too would guess that the wing was worn by a gunnery instructor. I know that winged bullet pins were given by some schools to the top scoring student, so would be less likely to consider them to be a top grad award.

 

We can also rule out Commercial Airlines as I am pretty sure none of the commercial airlines needed door gunners. 😄

 

Allan

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12 minutes ago, Allan H. said:

That is a great looking wing Ron. I too would guess that the wing was worn by a gunnery instructor. I know that winged bullet pins were given by some schools to the top scoring student, so would be less likely to consider them to be a top grad award.

 

We can also rule out Commercial Airlines as I am pretty sure none of the commercial airlines needed door gunners. 😄

 

Allan

 

😆... well times have changed. The air lines may need to upgrade.

 

Thanks for commenting on the wing. Its a bit unusual for sure. Really didnt have the typical "sweetheart" look to it.

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I would quibble and go the other way that it is more likely a sweetheart pin, patriotic jewelry and/or something for wear on the civilian lapels.

 

I think we should be clear that (in most cases) the gold instructor wings were worn by civilian contract instructors as insignia that they could (not always) wear whilst training pilots at the various civilian contract schools (like Cal Aero).  There also seems to have been a wide variation in when and what type of insignia was actually worn by the civilian instructors at these schools.  Pre war, some of the private schools had their own corporate insignia (but again, that was company specific--as some of the early flight schools traced their founding to the 20's or 30's).

 

Once the original 24 or so contract flight schools were selected early in the war, you can see in their yearbooks that the instructors and staff of these schools wore a variety of insignia, patches, hat badges and paramilitary uniforms--but since they werent members of the US Army, they didn't wear AAF uniforms and insignia.  During these first couple of years of the war, there were probably hundreds of variations on wings and insignia, including the use of gilt wings (there are a couple of really great threads on instructor insignia and more specifically on Cal Aero insignia).

 

As the war progressed, you start seeing more standardized insignia for the civilian pilot instructors, such as the eagle head wings and a standardized uniform, (also the CAA wings, etc).  If you look at the mid-late war year books and photos, you will find that the flight schools seemed to have adopted these uniforms for their personnel more or less exclusively.

 

Because of the relative rarity of civilian flight instructors, the 3inch gold/gilt wings are also relatively hard to find.  BUT... because anyone could buy a gilt pilot wing, there is no real reason to think that ALL gold wings were ONLY worn by WWII civilian pilot instructors. I suspect (and periodically find autobiographical proof) that gold wings were also given out to sweethearts, moms, dads, pilots who were retiring or in some cases maybe to mark an exciting event in their history.  These wings could also have been worn by private pilots, personnel of small aviation companies, etc.  Still, gilt 3 inch pilot wings are rather rare and highly sought after.  Gilt 2 inch "shirt size wings" are lower down on rare spectrum, not as rare as the 3inchers, but also not that uncommon.  I suspect that the gilt 2 inch pilot wins MAY have been worn on caps but more than likely were also intended for sweetheart/patriotic jewelry.  Because the market for these were greater, there were more made.

 

On the other hand, you see a ton of gilt 1 inch wings (in all ratings).  Again, I suspect that for the most part, these gilt insignia were mostly intended for the sweetheart/patriotic jewelry market.  I am sure that there were exceptions to these rules (aren't their always!), but when I see these small items, I always put them into the "sweetheart" category. But that being said, it doesn't mean I know what I am talking about and you could categorize in a different way for your collection.

 

I know this is a long winded but the above discussion is about the civilian flight training schools and the civilian pilot instructors.  They were unique in the early war training period of USAAF pilots, as they provided basic flight training and not so much basic military training (that was taken care of by other instructors).  Strictly speaking, the civilian instructors were not military personnel.

 

On the other hand, the gunner training fell under USAAF jurisdiction and control.  The gunnery cadets were being trained by military personnel and as such their uniforms and insignia was under normal uniform regulations. If gunnery instructors (likely TSgts or above) were wearing gold color insignia... there would have been a regulation proscribing that. USAAF instuctors did wear ID tags identifying them as instructors.  I am  not saying that gilt color wings were NEVER worn... but I doubt it.

 

Alan went ahead and kicked a can of hornets about the little winged bullet device. There are a few really good threads about that, with one or two photos showing someone wearing one of those small wing'd bullets on a cap.  But there is a LOT of dealer lore and very little real historical proof about what those things really were used for--top gun, best in class, or just novelty sweetheart items.  I personally fall into the novelty sweetheart items and until I see a 1944 dated memo from Capt Winky, CO of the Tyndall Gunner School saying that Prt Sparky and Cpl Lumpy Jones are awarded the top gun winged bullet to wear on their hat...  I will continue to refuse to pay stupid money for one of those every time they show up on ebay.

 

Of course all of this is just my opinion and is not intended to take anything away from some really cool insignia.


Thanks for sharing.

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I remember when the OJ trail was going down, F. Lee Bailey, one of his lawyers was always wearing a small set of UN Aviator wings on this suit lapel. 

 

It is also not uncommon to find VFW or other fraternal/patriotic organizations wearing insignia on their hats.  I've even seen VFW hats with WWI pilot wings on them! Sometimes even earlier insignia on some of the early organizations.

 

So these types of items were available and worn.

 

 

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I have a local cap with wings and various Dis to old Iowa Guard units. Have another with a post WW2 era Glider Pilots wing on it thats a stamped construction and full size. All found at local estate auctions over the years. 

 

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I have a full size gilt gunner by Amico and that can’t be for a lapel.

As Patrick said, gilt wings were generally considered for civilian flight instructors and I do agree, but yet, other wings did exist.

I wonder if maybe they were sold as unofficial instructors wings by some manufacturers?

It is easy to call a small wing a sweetheart piece, but not a full size wing in my opinion.
John

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Here is the back, note it is back marked +1/20 10K, so it was produced as a plated wing, like a First Type Flight Surgeon or USN Aviator...plating was not an after thought.

I also have a Pilot and Command Pilot in full size marked the same.

I have never been able to figure out if these are unofficial Instructor pieces or simply patriotic pieces.

John

Amico Gunner Gilt Wing #990 004.JPG

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Nice full size wing. We may really never know why the gilt wings were made or marketed. I have seen wings done in lesser quality materials like econo lead etc for the patriotic and civilian wear (sweet heart) also with more of a safety pin catch than a heavy roller catch and pin and as you say these are nicely marked and made. I guess the gunner wing is  more shirt size than lapel size in my thinking. Either way I saved it from going to the scrapper.

 

Thanks for all the comments and discussion.

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I have a silver flight AMICO flight surgeon wing that is marked just like yours but isn't gilt.  They probably just mated up some wing dies with the striker that said 1/20GF and never gilded them.  I figured that it was probably relatively low on their interest list in making sure they all matched up, as long at the base sterling metal content was marked.

 

As for "instructor wings" being in gold... I remain skeptical and feel that more of this is related to dealer lore and collector fantasy than reality.  The gunner wings were qualification badges and you didn't get a BETTER one for being an instructor.  In the USAAC/AAF pilot instructors had their own badge, a small 2inch wing worn on their sleeve. There is plenty of photographic evidence, biographical examples and uniform regulation codes codifying that process. 

 

During WWII, the USAAF had a number of patches and ID badges that instructors were wearing at the various schools that also have a fair amount of photographic and biographical evidence that they were worn. 

 

If you look through the various fixed gunnery school year books, I have yet to find any reference to any gold wings or special instructor wings.  These were guys processing other soldiers through the course, and a lot of that "instruction" probably had a lot to do with gun maintenance, loading, trouble shooting, and targeting/leading, etc.  So, it isn't clear to me that they had a cadre of master gunnery instructors that were wearing special gunnery wings because they had uber skills at aerial gunnery. 

 

Plus there are no uniform regulations (of course I am sure someone will prove me wrong and find some obscure reference stating the opposite) that I  know of that prescribed special gold wings.  In fact, in the USAAF, the use of "gold" wings was not something that the higher command liked... see the quick shift from gold FS and FN wings to silver FS and FN wings.

 

I am not saying that there may not have been exceptions... Or what the various companies were thinking about when they manufactured wings.  I have a nice set of salesman samples of Link insignia from the 20's that provide examples of insignia with various finishes (including pilot wings with a gilt shield and silver wings, gilt wings with silver shield and gilt observer wing and gilt WWI style pilot wing).  Those gilt observer wings are rare but when they do show up, they are attributed to "observer instructor wings"....

 

That being said. I want to make it clear that these are REALLY nice wings.  John, your gilt gunner wing is a beauty.  So I am not trying to put it down (unless I can use that ploy to trick you into giving it to me!.... LOL).  And in your collection, you can call it what every you like, I am by no means the wing police.  But it remains my opinion that there were no gilt gunner instructors wings (or bombardier or observer) in the USAAF.  But I am frequently and spectacularly ill informed on may aspects of my life.

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Here are my non-gilt FS wings that came from Dr. J Gallagher out of San Diego.  I don't know if they just made a large batch of observer wings using the pusher with 1/20th 10K GF Sterling hallmark and then used them as stock for other wings and never gilded them (but I suspect that is exactly what they did).  I have seen more than a few observer based wings with that hallmark that were never gilded.

 

The AMICO hallmarked winged bullet that shows up as a "top gun" award is another example of what I think AMICO was doing.  Making variations on their insignia for sell as souvenirs or keepsakes or sweetheart/patriotic jewelry to anyone who wanted them--if you paid for it, they probably would have given you what ever you wanted.  BUT... if they were making wings to be issued to military personnel, they would have followed the very specific requirements of the Government.

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One last thing about medical wings.  If you have a named FS wing, you can get a lot of research done on him relatively quick and easy.  You want to look him up in the listings of the American Medical Association (AMA).  Most large libraries will have the archives of the AMA available in their stacks.  A good place to start is in your local University.  They are annual reports listing all the pertinent information about a MD, including college education, medical school attended, year of graduation, specialty, etc.  For example, I went into the UCLA stacks and found the AMA archives. Then I started looking through the issues between 1941 and 1945.  Eventually, I found my guy, and was able work out his history (for medicine).  The research on his military service needs to be done through more traditional methods for Army/Navy records.  But it does add to the historical heft of a grouping, since most flight surgeons were doctors first and last.  Dr. Gallagher never went overseas and seemed to have stayed in the San Diego area his whole medical career, even during the war.

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I have a Flight Surgeon like yours as well, I think it is a transitional piece.

Obviously the back mark would be added before plating.

Probably the regs changed from gilt to the silver Type II FS and Amico already produced batch of Type I's, my thought is they just didn't get plated.

So, getting back to what the thread was originally about, like I said, I'm not exactly sure why some gunner wing badges were plated.

Thanks for showing the wing doyler, nice piece and nice addition to your collection!

 

John

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