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WW2 Khaki Crusher cap ?


Squale69
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Squale69

Hello,

 

Could someone give a feedback on this ww2 crusher cap manufactured by LEWIS ?

Real or Fake ? WW2 era ?

Price estimation ?

 

Thank you. P.A

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B8549E07-00AB-437D-A372-6B4D9DF641F2.jpeg

CF38B68A-D70C-4287-9B83-E2B3A35C57E0.jpeg

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BILL THE PATCH

Is the visor black or brown,?, Looks black, if it is I thought only brown was used in ww2.

Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

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aznation

It does have a laundry number under the visor.  There's 81 possible people that could've shared that laundry number.  So I'd say real and WWII.  I just don't have an idea as far as value.

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1canpara
1 hour ago, BILL THE PATCH said:

Is the visor black or brown,?, Looks black, if it is I thought only brown was used in ww2.

Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk
 

 
it looks to be a very dark brown, like maybe it was polished over time with a darker polish 

 

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BILL THE PATCH

Hmmm. I see yes, very dark brown.

Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

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Wake1941

I sold this cap on eBay a few weeks back, it is 100 percent original, wartime, and a true crusher not the nonsense crushers you see on eBay 

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2 hours ago, aznation said:

It does have a laundry number under the visor.  There's 81 possible people that could've shared that laundry number.  So I'd say real and WWII.  I just don't have an idea as far as value.

Matt, For an Officers cap shouldn't the number start with an O- ?

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The only other thing that throws me off is the condition of the buttons vs the eagle. Those buttons are clean and crisp, but not so much the eagle. Also when I look at the visor and the chin strap I see a well worn visor with the little dings and dents one sees, but the chin strap has only minor blemish's I can see. Odd.

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dmar836

PA, we can more likely estimate if you overpaid than give you a specific value.

The laundry number is a conflict but it could have had an EM insignia on it at one time. The officer's eagle could have been added later by a collector.

I would say that the leather is pretty rough. Sometimes the leather gets stiff and cracked, etc. and that is expected. This one may still be soft but just abused with many deep scratches and abrasions yet with no real damage to the band and crown. That type of damage appears pretty unusual considering the typical use and storage of a visor cap. I think that in contrast to the buttons is what draws attention to it. Are we willing to change the insignia and mask any sign of the officer's insignia to make it more correct? Do we treat the leather or distress the crown to make everything match better? Or is it all a coincidence with "nothing to see here"? I haven't seen that particular logo style but are these even made as repros? These are things we all must consider. Recently, I have been mocked for my "unfiltered" assessments but this is the thinking I have when reading this thread and seeing the pics - don't really know how else to contribute. Close ups of the inside top would be nice.

I respect Wake's comments - if he received it directly from the vet or maybe before the repro market started then maybe there is more confidence.

I'm not prone to go too hard at it other than it might have been "restored".

 

Dave

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A WWII officer cap IMHO.  I have one from the same maker, IIRC.  I have also seen the EM-style laundry marks in officer caps; why, I cannot say.  Perhaps they were bought when an aviation cadet?  Or perhaps officers also marked their stuff with the EM-style shorthand (I may have known the answer to this, but have forgotten).

 

As to the visor/buttons/etc. - I think there was a larger eagle originally on the cap.  I have gotten groups where the eagle is missing so you just put a replacement on, so that's not of a concern to me.  The bill and chinstrap look to be a dead match, so they are probably original.  I'd just get a large eagle with lots of finish left on it and it will perfectly match the buttons.  I think it's a nice cap.  

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Squale69

Thank you gentlemen for all your feedbacks ! 😉

I don't have any more pictures to provide as this cap is not (yet) mine...

Selling price is 275 US dollars (+shipment to France / and extra custom taxes)...

Should I wait and try to get a better one ?

Thanks. P.A

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dhcoleterracina

I think that you did well with this cap. It looks to be a rare maker since most that we see are Bancroft Flighters. 

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7 hours ago, Nack said:

A WWII officer cap IMHO.  I have one from the same maker, IIRC.  I have also seen the EM-style laundry marks in officer caps; why, I cannot say.  Perhaps they were bought when an aviation cadet?  Or perhaps officers also marked their stuff with the EM-style shorthand (I may have known the answer to this, but have forgotten).

 

As to the visor/buttons/etc. - I think there was a larger eagle originally on the cap.  I have gotten groups where the eagle is missing so you just put a replacement on, so that's not of a concern to me.  The bill and chinstrap look to be a dead match, so they are probably original.  I'd just get a large eagle with lots of finish left on it and it will perfectly match the buttons.  I think it's a nice cap.  

Once an enlisted man graduates from the aviation cadet program his enlisted number is replaced by his officer number. The numbers are not the same. As for the bill and chin strap, its not the color I am talking about. Its the dings, scrapes and dents on the bill go all the way up to the chinstrap and beyond yet do not leave any marks on the chin strap itself. That is what I am calling odd. I really do not know how that happens unless the chinstrap was replaced. I would like to see what the cap looks like without the eagle on it. I should see a wear pattern for what was originally on it. If it was an eagle I should see rub marks that line up with an eagle or even the ghost image from being in the sun. If it was an aviation cadets cap I should see the tell tale of the over sized wing and prop insignia or that ghost image. If it had an enlisted cap insignia then I would expect to see a circle ghost image due to sun fade. If I were going to fork out that kind of  money I would have asked my questions first before throwing down any money. Maybe its all good, but their is nothing wrong with having questions answered first. Just saying.

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phantomfixer

is the cover a slip on? that is, late war (or maybe postwar?) you had a frame and could swap covers from winter to summer...That is what it looks like to me in the last pic. Which is odd for a true crusher..

 

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AustinO

Looks like a good summer crusher, I have no problems with it.  

 

Re the laundry number, since its an officer's cap it would not be searchable aznation.

 

P59, I have seen quite a few instances where an officer uses an enlisted style laundry number (ie their last initial first vs O prefix).  In every example I have personally handled the number lined up with their O number last four.  Think it just boiled down to what they wanted their stamp to be. 

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2 hours ago, AustinO said:

Looks like a good summer crusher, I have no problems with it.  

 

Re the laundry number, since its an officer's cap it would not be searchable aznation.

 

P59, I have seen quite a few instances where an officer uses an enlisted style laundry number (ie their last initial first vs O prefix).  In every example I have personally handled the number lined up with their O number last four.  Think it just boiled down to what they wanted their stamp to be. 

With all due respect I am pretty sure an officers dog tag number was not whatever one wanted. It's an 0-. Guys marked their stuff for a number of reasons. They call it a laundry number for a reason. They also used the number to keep tract of their gear. In as far as aircrew its also a way to figure out who is who if your plane crashed. I have been to over 140 military crash sites. Most WW2 era. They are brutal. Aluminum is as sharp as a knife as it blows apart during impact. People are dismembered and burned in the post impact fire. If you are planning on being buried in a coffin with all your parts then you need to tag all your parts so they do not get mixed up with all the other body parts. I do not see how an unauthorized number on your gear or person works to your advantage in anyway. 

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TheCrustyBosun
14 hours ago, P-59A said:

This is what I am talking about.

20210331_193047.jpg

Ghosting may not appear as clearly on a TW or cotton twill cover as it does on a fur felt. However, verdigris staining from a hat device/badge may tell a story. Just thinking. 
 

And the laundry number is a valid point. 

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dmar836

Phantomfixer brings up the greatest concern yet - for this particular cap. Is this a removable cover? Looking at the pic of the underside in the back it appears to be. If so, that along with the unusual "aviation" label and the prop and wings, I'd guess this to be post war.

P.A., can you check please?

Dave

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Lewis Fly Weighters are WW2 era crush caps, they were not authorized post-WW2. 

 

Yes officer SERIAL NUMBERS began with a letter prefix (O most commonly), LAUNDRY MARKS are still first letter of the last name and last 4 digits of the SERIAL NUMBER. The 2 seem to be getting confused. 

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TheCrustyBosun
15 minutes ago, MattS said:

Lewis Fly Weighters are WW2 era crush caps, they were not authorized post-WW2. 

 

Yes officer SERIAL NUMBERS began with a letter prefix (O most commonly), LAUNDRY MARKS are still first letter of the last name and last 4 digits of the SERIAL NUMBER. The 2 seem to be getting confused. 

Right you are. I am guilty of confusing the two. 

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16 hours ago, P-59A said:

This is what I am talking about.

20210331_193047.jpg

 

In my collecting experience, wool caps do tend to hold the impression of the cap badge better than cotton. I have bought caps and removed the officer's eagle only to find a smaller round enlisted impression behind it, but if it's an officer pattern cap, it's an officer pattern cap regardless of what insignia was attached to it. 

 

In reference to the side buttons, if they were upgraded with private purchase gold ones (that never require polishing), I would expect they wouldn't tarnish. 

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Squale69

Hello guys !

Here is an enriching discussion with a maximum of information ! Thank you for that ! 👍

 

I haven't yet bought this cap... I wanted to have some information before buying !

 

I have been looking for a crusher cap for some time and I don't want to make (too much) mistakes when buying...

 

Many opinions are shared... some good, some bad... and I'm gonna try to make my own 😉

 

What is a correct price for a real summer ww2 crusher cap (buyer side) ?

 

Thanks. P.A

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dmar836

It's really hard to tell on that one. Rarish maker but not the standard markings is my main thing. A detachable crown would be an issue.

Dave

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