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M1 carbine with bayo lug in WWII


mdk0911
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mdk0911

maybe some have seen this but I haven't and just found it.

A picture of a soldier with a M1 carbine with a bayo lug - this picture is from the battle of Iwo

so bayo lug was issued and used in WWII

  

ww2_m1_carbine_with_bayonet_lug_iwo_jima.jpg

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OLDNAVYNUKESPOOK

Very interesting! Can you share the source of that picture?

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thorin6

The last time I saw this photo, it was dated around May 1945, and was thought not to be associated with the battle.  Not sure where I saw that.

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Rhscott

My Inland hand strike M1 is a 6785xxx with a 1-45 barrel and matching Inland milled rear sight and Inland bayonet lug band.

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mdk0911

This man is Army and is watching a B29 ditch into the sea - Iwo might be a reach - maybe Tinian

this website is where I found this photo = www.milsurps.com

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If this photo was taken at Iwo, it was after the battle.  During the battle the only Army troops on Iwo was a DUKW unit and my understanding is that it was an all-black unit.

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I thought it was widely accepted that bayonet lugs on carbines were introduced in the last year of the war? The full conversion of most older carbines to include the lug, safety switch, and rear sight was complete by Korea, correct? [I'm sure they may have been a few that slipped through the cracks so I purposely didn't say ALL carbines] 

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6 minutes ago, M422A1 said:

If this photo was taken at Iwo, it was after the battle.  During the battle the only Army troops on Iwo was a DUKW unit and my understanding is that it was an all-black unit.

 

Photo caption: 342-FH-3A-42719-64926AC B-29 DITCH Because of an extremely dense fog, it was necessary for the crew members to ditch this Boeing B-29 "Superfortress". The plane was returning from a mission over Tokyo, Japan; wounded personnel was aboard. The man in the foreground stands guard so that no one will get away with the bomber's accessories and equipment. Iwo Jima, Bonin Islands. May 1945.

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Thank you MattS, it may look like a bunch of numbers but are keys to find what one seeks.

 

Here is a high resolution of the image in question.

 

559471809_lug(2).jpg.8c96783901f5013c9383792d6b8ebfe9.jpg

 

133706951_lug(1).jpg.05108579014b96bee94727d9f27c578f.jpg

 

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Here is an interesting back story related to  342-FH-3A-42719-64926AC. 342 is the Record Group identifier at the Still Pictures Branch/ National Archives. FH means Finally Here. 3A-42719 is the serial number finding aid in that record group and 64926AC is the negative number to the image itself, as can be seen in the lower right hand corner of the image above. 

 

Why would a institution use such a frivolous designation as "Finally Here"?

Most all large archive institutions, to include federal, dislike each other very much. They bicker and squabble over artifacts and records, each think they should have it all and rarely share with one another. One institution thinks certain things they should have and vice-versa. It is really a competitive market when things become available, a lot of bureaucracy. Those images in Record Group 342 where ear marked for the National Archives Records Administration upon release by the USAF. Dually, the National Air and Space Museum wanted them as well. In an under handed move by the NASM, they contacted some high ranking officer at the pentagon to pull some strings to get those images transferred to them. He then had some higher ranking officer sign a transfer slip, essentially a paper high jacking while the images were in transit to the NARA, unbeknownst to those parties under the original agreement. This cultivated in a multi year long battle between NARA, NASM and several federal agencies to have those images returned to NARA. I cannot recall how many years transpired but eventually NASM was forced to give them up and once they arrived at NARA, they were so elated they assigned the Alpha designator of FH in celebration. 

NASM had also did the same thing to the National Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio, and till this day, have not returned what they spuriously commandeered. The back story here is that all the records at Wright Field were transferred to various satellite holding facilities with the intention of being part of the archive at the proposed creation of the NAFM. The original location was planned elsewhere and is why all the records were packed away, but ultimately it was finalized to be located at Wright Field, Dayton Ohio. In the long run, all those records and images did not need to be moved. So, they ended up back where they had been since the 1920's. Mysteriously, out of all the material, somehow the images and only the images went to NASM. Wright Field has been fighting tooth and nail to get them back for decades but NASM thinks they are rightfully theirs. Their is such an animosity between NAFM and NASM, they don't really even talk to each other or rarely. It is just not images either, its aircraft as well. NASM has more pull and the bully pulpit over all other federal museums. 

I've personally visited the archive holdings at the National Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola, NAFM in Dayton and National Archives. The curators at those three rant negatively about NASM and all have a story or two about how NASM screwed them over. I've also visited the archives at the NASM, there the curators have a smug tone knowing they are cock of the walk.

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firstflabn

So, we have an answer to a trivia question - there was at least one. History by anecdote is mildly interesting, but not very illuminating. It gives no hint as to whether that was the only one or if there were 100 or 1,000 or 100,000 just like it.  And it comes two months after the island was secured when Iwo was becoming an air base and a depot for staging Downfall. At best, an anecdote can lead toward a better refined question, rarely a meaningful answer.

 

If you're looking to win a bar bet, first find somebody drunk enough to bet an absolute (not absolut:D) proposition: none, never, always, only.

 

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Taber10

Interesting story by dustin, and THANKS for posting.  Gives us some insight we wouldn't ever get otherwise.  However, it seems that there MAY perhaps be some personal opinion interjected there, either his or his "sources" at various locations.

We've gotten off topic, but for the record, I've never before seen the National Museum of the USAF (NMUSAF) abbreviated as NAFM.

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Anyhoo, I believe it's been established that bayonet lugs were fitted to some carbines in the Pacific theater by May of 1945. They probably didn't make it to Europe prior to V-E Day, but maybe the next photo posted will be of a GI at the Rhine holding a carbine with a bayonet lug. 

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1 hour ago, Taber10 said:

Interesting story by dustin, and THANKS for posting.  Gives us some insight we wouldn't ever get otherwise.  However, it seems that there MAY perhaps be some personal opinion interjected there, either his or his "sources" at various locations.

We've gotten off topic, but for the record, I've never before seen the National Museum of the USAF (NMUSAF) abbreviated as NAFM.

 

My dyslexia moment, regardless of the nomenclature oversight, you knew what I was referring. I never could recall the the official name of that museum, always twisting it up.

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thorin6

I had a Winchester M1 Carbine made in February 1945.  It had a bayonet lug that was marked SA (Springfield Armory).  Doing research indicated that SA didn't make bayonet lugs until June/July 1945, so this bayonet lug was not original to the carbine.  It appears that although the bayonet lug was authorized at that time, Winchester was putting Type 2 barrel bands on their carbines in February and even later because they were having trouble getting the bayonet lugs, and thanks to the Battle of the Bulge and other losses, they were being allowed to complete carbines using whatever they had, Type 2 barrel bands or even Type 1s in order to get the carbines out the door.  During the period after the war when existing carbines were being put up for storage they replaced all the earlier bands with the bayonet lug.

Not saying that bayonet lugs weren't used, but lack of them didn't stop Winchester (and possibly Inland) from finishing carbines and delivering them to the military.

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USARV72

WWII had little to no restrictions on production of anything, was total war and what ever needed to be done was done. Reason there are different colored field gear Ect. and certainly weapons. The book “ War Baby” has just about all info on .30 Carbine facts. During the war only Inland and Winchester mfg .30 Carbines with bayonet, just checked couple of books..

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