Navy or USCG Sailor's Jack Knife 4-Line Camillus?

[WD40]

Hi, 

I bought a Camillus rope knife and I'm not sure whether this model was an official issued item to the US Navy or maybe Coast Guard.

The knife only has the small 4 line Camillus marking. I found informations on the USCG approved knives which are the same model I guess.

But they do have the marking "USCG approved 1944 ... " on the tang and they are from 1944 on I guess.

Because of the all steel construction of the knife I would guess it's a wartime production.

So, my question is, is this knife a military knife or a civilian model? And if it is a military knife, to whom was it issued to? 

Would be happy about any info. Thank you.

[Charlie Flick]

Hello WD40:

 

I am sorry that it took so long for anyone to reply to your inquiry.  Your thread was posted in the Edged Weapons Reference section rather than the General section where inquiries like your's is supposed to go.  I have now moved it to the proper location.

 

I believe that your Camillus was neither U.S. Navy or Coast Guard issue, although those knives are essentially identical except for the markings.  Instead, another type of American sailor was the intended user of these knives with only the 4-line Camillus blade marking.  Camillus identified these blades as having been provided during WW2 to the U.S. Maritime Commission for U.S. Merchant Marine sailors.   See the "Camillus Knives That Went to War" advertisement that Camillus published in its early post-war catalogs.

 

That is a very nice variation on these sailor knives.

 

Regards,

Charlie

[WD40]

Dear Charlie,

 

sorry for posting it in the wrong section, thank you for moving my post into the right section. And thank you so much for your answer and the information on the knife. I really do enjoy this forum, as I can learn so much on the history. I have never heard from the US merchant marines before, super interesting, just read an article about it. 
 

best regards from Germany,

Klaus
 

 

[Collector2]

Hi Camillus buffs,

 

I have a couple of Camillus small 4 line, blade marked knives and was wondering what vintage they may be and also if they were the type used by the US military at some stage of there life.

1967 Stainless 4 blade Camillus for size comparison.

Also any idea of age of the later Camillus electricians knife with the single pin in handle.

Any information about any of these would be appreciated.

 

Cheers

[sactroop]

I've been told that the knife w/marlin spike is of a kind that Camillus made for the British Navy prior to our entering of the War.  You might want some independent conformation on that story as I'm not certain of the source for that information.

The knife above the SS Camillus looks like a typical TL-29 knife like the one in your second picture.  Are the sizes the same?  Some of the earlier versions of that knife were smaller and often called Radio Man Knives.

[Collector2]

sactroop

Thanks for the information on the above knives. The electricians knife on second photo is same length as the SS Camillus knife.

I have also seen this knife with 3 pins through the handles and I believe they were made earlier but not sure of dates.

I do have this smaller Ric-Nor Boston USA electricians knife and I recall having seen it called a radio knife.

Cheers.

[sactroop]

Yes I've also heard the name "Radio Knife" and I know that pre-dates WW2.  Thanks to the number designation these electrician knives are often called "TL-29" knives.  This often appears on the knife itself and often is part of the description of the knife in the catalog, at least around here in the States.  

You say that the one in the first picture has a 4-line tang stamp.  That is the most common stamp Camillus used for most of WW2 on their pocket knives.  It seems to transfer over to a 3-line stamp circa 1944.  They were also using that 4-line stamp prior to the War.  The jigged bolsters are not the most common way that type knife was produced during the War, but many were done that way.  

[Collector2]

Both the knives on the first photo have the identical 4 line Camillus blade stamp, the top one being a little hard to see USA as it is behind metal and only visible when opening the blade.

From what I have seen, these electrician "TL 29" type knives were made by several makers over many years and trying to work out their age and if any military connection is a little hard as most of them were US knife makers with existing suitable knives for military use.

Cheers.

[WD40]

@Collector2 here is a kind of advert from Camillus, showing the same Pattern marlin spike knife as yours is. So according to Camillus it was an Navy issued knife I think. The British navy marlin spike knife is pretty much the same except of the handles, they where made of steel. And yes, some US company made some for the British Navy, saw one made by Keen Kutter. Well I would love to have one of these bone handle Electricans Knives. I don’t know whether it is an Army issued or civil one. But the facts of that it has the 4 line Camillus stamp and that it‘s spacers are made of steel makes it a knife from WWII era. Army issued TL-29 knives either have a marking “TL-29” on the handle or do have a marking on the screwdriver blade saying “push to left to release” but these markings where just kind of etched into it and are often worn off. 

[sactroop]

14 hours ago, WD40 said:

@Collector2 here is a kind of advert from Camillus, showing the same Pattern marlin spike knife as yours is. So according to Camillus it was an Navy issued knife I think. The British navy marlin spike knife is pretty much the same except of the handles, they where made of steel. And yes, some US company made some for the British Navy, saw one made by Keen Kutter. Well I would love to have one of these bone handle Electricans Knives. I don’t know whether it is an Army issued or civil one. But the facts of that it has the 4 line Camillus stamp and that it‘s spacers are made of steel makes it a knife from WWII era. Army issued TL-29 knives either have a marking “TL-29” on the handle or do have a marking on the screwdriver blade saying “push to left to release” but these markings where just kind of etched into it and are often worn off. 

 

I should start off by repeating what I said earlier that I remain undecided about whether or not the knife pictured in post #4 was issued to U.S. sailors.

The above picture is one of two pages from Camillus's first post-WW2 catalog printed late in 1945, describing the knives they were making for the war effort while the general public was waiting to be able to purchase knives again. The fact that it is described as (Navy marlin spike knife), also led me to assume it was U.S. Navy issue.  Over time I've run across other information that leaves me less certain of that being the case.

At about 1960 Camillus published a document that provides more details about their WW2 production from 1941-1945.  The document is about 50 pages in all.

Here is an image of the one page that refers to the Marlin Spike Knife.

 

 

Note;

Camillus states it is for the U.S. Navy, and qualifies it for (lend lease to British Navy)

also at line 4. USES, it specifies again (by British Sailors)

 

To be fair this document while having proved very helpful in researching many things in regards to WW2, it has also been showed to have mistakes and omissions.

 

I'm going to encourage people with an interest in either Camillus knives or more general knife history, to take a look at the (Collectors-of-Camillus) web site.

besides being able to view and down load a variety of documents including both the specific catalog (#46) and the entire production document 41-45, there is a lot more there that can be of interest.

[WD40]

@sactroop, thank you for the great resource you shared here! 
@Collector2, I found your Camillus TL-29 with bone handles in Michael Silvey’s book of US Military Pocket Knives, there you can read about the date. 

[sactroop]

Happy to have been of service.

[Collector2]

WD40 & sactroop,

 

Sorry for delay in responding, we have been on the far side of the country visiting family and could not sign in to forum to reply.

 

Thank you to both for the input you have had on my Camillus knives and pointing me in the direction for more information about same.

 

From what I can see above, there may not have been many of these Camillus Navy Spike knives made, and even less by Ulster.

 

WD40, I do not have M W  Silvey's book of US Pocket Knives but I do have his book "Knives of the US Military WW 2", and on page 103 he has a photo of the Camillus rope knife identical to yours, but no other information about it.

 

Cheers.