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WW1 Victory and Brit War Medal, Navy Wide


easterneagle87
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easterneagle87

Has anyone seen this combination before? Flea market pick up and found them cool. Two place ribbon bars, WW1 Victory medal and Brit War Medal.

 

Pre-clutch back fasteners and straight pin back mountings. Not the English pin back version at all. AND ... all on Wide Navy 1/2 inch style. 

 

US person with service in the Canadian or Brit Regiments?  

   

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Hermanus

Yes, saw this before. Not that much but.... 

 

And always it was a US citizen with British or Canada service.

 

Some groups are shown here at the forum.

 

Regards

Herman 

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ItemCo16527

U.S. soldiers wearing the British War Medal ribbon was usually due to a misunderstanding of the eligibility requirements. Some Americans did qualify for it because they were assigned to a British unit. However, many other soldiers thought they qualified because their unit was attached to a British unit.

 

Case in point: the 27th Division was attached to a British Corps or field army for a time (I can't remember which). Many men who served with the 27th mistakenly thought this qualified them for the BWM, when in fact it didn't. I'll make a separate post as soon as I can get on my computer to show examples of what I'm talking about.

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ItemCo16527

To follow up on my previous post, 1st Lt. Dr. George S. Condit was a U.S. Army doctor assigned to an orthopedic unit which was attached to the Royal Army Medical Corps. I have attached his Medal Index Card so you can see what a card for an American recipient would look like. A list had been forwarded to the department issuing the medals containing the names of officers eligible for the medal. I can safely assume he was issued the medal since, typically, notes would be made on a card if an officer applied for their medals and was deemed ineligible for them. To date, I have not been able to track down which unit he was with, but it appears that by being attached to the RAMC he was eligible for the BWM.

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ItemCo16527

On the flip side, many soldiers wore the ribbon of the British War Medal in the mistaken belief that they were entitled to it based on their unit (in this case the 27th Division) being attached to British command during World War I. 

 

I have attached a couple of examples of officers wearing the BWM ribbon. The first is Brig. Gen. Ogden J. Ross, commander of the 53rd Infantry Brigade in 1941. I could find no Medal Index Card for him. Next is his XO, LTC William F. Toole. Again, no Medal Index Card. Third is Col. James G. Conroy, CO of the 165th Infantry. Finally, Maj. Harald F. Gormsen, then-CO of 2/102nd ECB. I actually used to own a bunch of his medals and insignia, including his mini-medal bar which included the British War Medal. All of these men wore the ribbon, and even the medal itself, but were ineligible for it.

 

I'm not 100% certain as to the regulations for the British War Medal and its being awarded to non-British soldiers. In Dr. Condit's case, his unit seemed to be under British command and attached to a unit of the Royal Army Medical Corps. Its being attached to the RAMC is, I think, the key to his eligibility. Whereas the 27th Division may have been attached (maybe briefly) to a British command, they were probably not technically on the British order of battle and were still under American command overall. Someone who knows more than I may be able to explain how this situation worked. Regardless, the troops were in the line alongside British troops, but were not in a position to where they would have been entitled to the British War Medal.

 

 

 

 

BG Ogden J. Ross.PNG

LTC William F. Toole.PNG

COL James G. Conroy.PNG

Maj. Harald F. Gormsen.PNG

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