Forage cap? brim may have belonged to CW general

[albatrosdva]

Ok, so this is gonna be one of my odder posts. I bought a whole bunch of old photos and paper because it dealt with a family that had three sons in WWI, one of which was killed in the war. The old photographs (CDVs) date back to the 1860s though. There was also some misc. other in the box lot. A stereo viewer, various old wallets, books, and a thick brim that reminds me of a forage cap brim. Of course it could be from a fraternal organization but there are two photos in the collection of a known Civil War union general so I thought I would ask opinions on here. General Paul Oliver has a well known history going from Lieut. to Gen through the war, having been in 25 battles and winning a Medal of Honor for stopping a friendly fire situation. I have read the discussions on here about enlisted forage caps of the war with the thin brims they had. Were officer's caps different? It would be fun to own something that had been worn by someone like that so of course I hope it is but I bow to you guys experience as I am not a Civil War collector. The two CDVs are General Oliver in the 1870s and 1890s. The 70s one is fairly well known. I've not found another copy of the later. General Oliver's sister married a Bonnell and their son is the father of the three WWI veterans. So the general is their great uncle and was evidently very close. Lots of newspaper accounts of their visits and he included their father in his will/treated him as a son. 

[albatrosdva]

Interesting little plot twist. I assumed the hat didn't survive. I was searching for a similar CDV to the photos I posted and I found his hat! It sold in 2008 and was sans bill when bought from the family. Well I got the bill, wonder who has the hat? https://historical.ha.com/itm/military-and-patriotic/civil-war/historic-cap-worn-in-battle-by-valiant-new-york-officer-and-congressional-medal-of-honor-winner-the-piece-was-worn-by-capta-total-3/a/6015-57429.s?id=4216004

[M24 Chaffee]

Hello Albatrosdva, IMHO that sure looks like a brim to a ACW forage cap. It looks like it’s from what collectors call a type II style cap ( a little squarer). Here’s a link about brims http://www.njsekela.com/issuecaps/issuecaps.html

Although it could also possibly be from a post war cap or GAR cap. 
Most Officers would have had commercially made caps and not the issue caps that enlisted men would receive. The commercially made caps would have been a better quality and their brims had finished edges rather than the raw edge of issue caps. 
The brim you show looks like an the issue type although a little thicker. The cap in the link you provided is a fine quality officers cap and the leather bill has the finished edge. This is just what I’m seeing. I’m sure others with more knowledgeable will be able to help. It sounds like you picked up some cool stuff and the brim is fun to have. 
 

Regards,

Frank

[albatrosdva]

16 minutes ago, M24 Chaffee said:

Hello Albatrosdva, IMHO that sure looks like a brim to a ACW forage cap. It looks like it’s from what collectors call a type II style cap ( a little squarer). Here’s a link about brims http://www.njsekela.com/issuecaps/issuecaps.html

Although it could also possibly be from a post war cap or GAR cap. 
Most Officers would have had commercially made caps and not the issue caps that enlisted men would receive. The commercially made caps would have been a better quality and their brims had finished edges rather than the raw edge of issue caps. 
The brim you show looks like an the issue type although a little thicker. The cap in the link you provided is a fine quality officers cap and the leather bill has the finished edge. This is just what I’m seeing. I’m sure others with more knowledgeable will be able to help. It sounds like you picked up some cool stuff and the brim is fun to have. 
 

Regards,

Frank

Hi Frank, thank you for the reply. What was interesting to me in the link is it says that that cap was missing the brim when it came from the family. I have the missing brim. The brim with the finished edge is a period correct replacement.

[M24 Chaffee]

15 minutes ago, albatrosdva said:

Hi Frank, thank you for the reply. What was interesting to me in the link is it says that that cap was missing the brim when it came from the family. I have the missing brim. The brim with the finished edge is a period correct replacement.

Oh I see that now. I guess I really needed my 2nd cup of coffee! That’s interesting and cool that you found the link with that photo and information and that you may have the original brim! If you wanted to there may be a way to track down the current owner of the cap through Heritage Auctions?  
Or you can just display a cool little piece of ACW history. 

[scottiques]

Nice find!

 

Be sure to document what you have.  I'd put together a letter and photographs along with the printouts of the HA sales to show how you reached the attribution.

 

If the brim is not a keeper, I would certainly try and reunite with the original hat.  HA Auctions does have a make an offer feature for some items, so you may be able to work it that way.

 

Great save-- many would have just thrown it in a box and forgotten about it.

 

Keep us posted on where you go with this.

 

Scott

[albatrosdva]

3 hours ago, scottiques said:

Nice find!

 

Be sure to document what you have.  I'd put together a letter and photographs along with the printouts of the HA sales to show how you reached the attribution.

 

If the brim is not a keeper, I would certainly try and reunite with the original hat.  HA Auctions does have a make an offer feature for some items, so you may be able to work it that way.

 

Great save-- many would have just thrown it in a box and forgotten about it.

 

Keep us posted on where you go with this.

 

Scott

Thanks Scott, It has been a lot of fun trying to figure out the genealogy of the family and then to find the CIvil War connection was just pure bonus since I got it for the WWI stuff. I have already contacted HA Auctions to see if they can get me in touch with the original buyer. I would think adding all the family photos to the provenance of the hat would make it worth twice as much whether they decide to repair the hat with the original bill or keep it as it is. If I have no luck tracing the owner of the original hat I will probably put the brim in with the photos of the general and the auctioned hat photos together in a shadow box (of course I will keep the other photos but they are less relevant except for documenting that provenance).

[illinigander]

I had a 1850's Shako in pieces that had the same thick bill.  Not sure where it ever went.

illinigander