Early WWII US Navy Mediterranean tan camo helmet with Hawley liner

[6th.MG.BN]

I was hoping to get some help with this early WWII helmet. F/S, F/B helmet is painted with a khaki camo paint. I'm guessing the early helmet/liner along with the khaki camo color would lend it to African / Mediterranean theater. When you look at the front you can see a marking that was painted over. Looks like "8/B or D", hard to make out. I even tried using a blacklight. Inside the shell has a very early heat stamp lot #65E.

The Hawley liner appears to have been with it for awhile. At first I thought the rank painted on the front of the liner was for a Sergeant but painted upside down. Than looking over the other markings I changed to Naval Chief Petty Officer rank. Has what looks like his initials "C.P.S." painted over the rank. On the back of the liner it is marked "C28".

Any help with the overpainted front marking or additional info on liner markings would be greatly appreciated.

Ken

[ArchangelDM]

Cool helmet 

I would say it says 

 

S / D or 

 

S / B 

 

- Dean

[6th.MG.BN]

Dean,

Thanks. It could be S/D or S/B, hard to say for sure.

Ken

[Bill47]

Nice set.  To me it looks like either SXB or SYB.  Maybe a more experienced Navy guy will be able to give us a better idea of what its could mean.  Interesting helmet.

[6th.MG.BN]

19 hours ago, Bill47 said:

Nice set.  To me it looks like either SXB or SYB.  Maybe a more experienced Navy guy will be able to give us a better idea of what its could mean.  Interesting helmet.

It could be SXB or SYB but hard to make out for certain. If the sun ever comes out I'll try looking at it in natural light. I think your right about some with knowledge of US Naval markings.

Ken

[dmar836]

Is any salt corrosion from the Pacific or from Normandy?

[Burning Hazard]

Maybe I'm slightly colorblind but I'm not seeing Tan; it looks to me like it was repainted with either Haze green paint or just the OD paint discoloured.

 

Here is an M1 I used to own with very discoloured paint - maybe served in Pacific.

 

Pat

[shadawg]

from what i can tell, it looks like the old abbreviation for seaman 1st class S 1/c and a first initial. liner is that of a chief petty officer, but we all know how easy it is to mix things around

[shadawg]

also, as a note, it could or could not be the case, but haze gray or "ship" gray, has a tendency, when exposed to continuous uv daylight, to turn a pinkish tan sometimes. i'm still current navy, and see it time and time again. it typically happens quickest on the ships upper superstructure and masts

[shadawg]

3 minutes ago, shadawg said:

also, as a note, it could or could not be the case, but haze gray or "ship" gray, has a tendency, when exposed to continuous uv daylight, to turn a pinkish tan sometimes. i'm still current navy, and see it time and time again. it typically happens quickest on the ships upper superstructure and masts

heres a rather drastic example of that instance. and like i said, it may or may not be the case, but given it is a navy helmet, i feel it a possibility to explain the color

[6th.MG.BN]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:50 PM, dmar836 said:

Is any salt corrosion from the Pacific or from Normandy?

Signs of corrosion/ patina yes. From where, I couldn't tell you.

[6th.MG.BN]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:08 PM, Burning Hazard said:

Maybe I'm slightly colorblind but I'm not seeing Tan; it looks to me like it was repainted with either Haze green paint or just the OD paint discoloured.

 

Here is an M1 I used to own with very discoloured paint - maybe served in Pacific.

 

Pat

Pat,

 Hard to capture the color in a picture. I know what you are talking about with patina and old green base paint tinting the overpaint. Definitely not a haze green though.

Here are some pictures next to a green lid for comparison.

Ken

[6th.MG.BN]

On 3/7/2021 at 12:38 AM, shadawg said:

heres a rather drastic example of that instance. and like i said, it may or may not be the case, but given it is a navy helmet, i feel it a possibility to explain the color

Big difference in the color gray on the ship. The helmet shows some color variation from wear, patina and original green base color. Khaki/ tan color on the helmet is pretty consistent on the SS rim with no patina/rust. A couple of pictures compared to a green and a gray Navy helmet.

Ken

[6th.MG.BN]

On 3/7/2021 at 12:19 AM, shadawg said:

from what i can tell, it looks like the old abbreviation for seaman 1st class S 1/c and a first initial. liner is that of a chief petty officer, but we all know how easy it is to mix things around

That could very well be the case. If the rank was painted on the helmet, would it have been used more on a smaller vessel? I see helmet racks for stacking groups of helmets on bigger ships, no need to put a rank on it in that case. You will see the gun mount numbers painted on helmets to keep the helmets stacked by a certain gun, also no need for a rank to be  painted on it.

Thanks,

Ken

 

[shadawg]

7 hours ago, 6th.MG.BN said:

That could very well be the case. If the rank was painted on the helmet, would it have been used more on a smaller vessel? I see helmet racks for stacking groups of helmets on bigger ships, no need to put a rank on it in that case. You will see the gun mount numbers painted on helmets to keep the helmets stacked by a certain gun, also no need for a rank to be  painted on it.

Thanks,

Ken

 

indeed, i think the same. on a smaller vessel, instead of a ready rack, individual sailors would likely have their own assigned helmet. could likely have been used ashore for rank recognition within different units. also given the case that the color being tan, could be likely for small craft or shore unit. either way, i still think it is a neat helmet. not too common to run in to ranked/rated navy lids

[6th.MG.BN]

Thanks for the info.

Ken