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US Army Philippine Insurrection medal with impressed year on reverse


Matt-M
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Howdy. Anyone else come across another planchette impressed in the same manner? Was 1911 when he was issued this? Moro Rebellion participant? Any help appreciated. Thanks!

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Name:Renzo Dare

Post Name:Manila, Camp Dewey

Post Location:Philippine Islands

Post Commander:A E Bradley

Military Place:Division Hospital, Manila, Philippine Islands

Return Period:Apr 1911

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I also got a hit for Deverau B. Pierce, but says it was cancelled. So, does that mean this medal was originally meant for Pierce, but withheld and then issued to Dare?

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And, not to be a total pain in the rear... but does this mean he was in the hospital when it was authorized to him, and then he received it while back in the states?

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unclegrumpy

The number range of that medal was issued in sometime in the middle of 1913.  If this particular medal had been returned, it could be later.  You would have to get the copy of the original medal roll to see if there was a notation or correction.  

 

I also see what Bill does...Renzo Dare was at the Cavalry School at Ft. Riley when he got the medal...so yes, he received it back in the States.  

 

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Ok. So the OMSA database search that I posted a screenshot of, saying that Devereau was issued/cancelled the same number has no bearing on this particular medal? I'm specifically trying to understand the OMSA notations. Please help me understand, but the way I'm reading the info, was that this medal was intended for Devereau, cancelled (reasons unknkown) then reissued to Dare (as it states in the OMSA notation that Dare's medal was "resissued"). Am I reading the OMSA notations correctly?

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unclegrumpy

It is hard to know what the notation means.  The numbers and attributions are on the original medal roll, which is on cards/pages.  I can't recall how many entries are on each one, but it is something like 10 or 15.  Those pages are where the information in the OMSA database comes from.  

 

I think if you got the page that has number 19637 on it, you would probably see Pierce lined out and Dare written in.  The only thing this would maybe change is when Dare was issued and sent the medal.  He was still in the Army in 1914, and I suspect he got it then or before.  We know that number 19637 came up in mid 1913, so there would have been time for the medal to have been returned....but maybe it was just cancelled and never was sent to Pierce.

 

The end point here is I don't think any of this matters, because it was officially Dare's medal.  

 

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unclegrumpy

Found an example of one of the cards/pages I was referring to.  Different medal, but it should be similar.

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Thank you very much for this info. Now I understand what you mean. Very, very helpful !!

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Foxfall

Early army campaign medals were authorized for specific periods of service and/or engagement in specific events. Some of these campaign medals were also issued after the closing date of the campaign to soldiers involved in subsequent specific actions in which casualties were sustained. In those cases the date of the action was put on the reverse of the medal.

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Thanks, Foxall. Yes, I was reading up on the 13th, and they seemed to be engaged all the way until 1910-1911, so this would make perfect sense. Hopefully the guy will have some more if his things. Would be cool if he ended up going into Mexico after Cav school!

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unclegrumpy
2 minutes ago, Matt-M said:

I was reading up on the 13th, and they seemed to be engaged all the way until 1910-1911. Would be cool if he ended up going into Mexico after Cav school!

 

Question...the 13th what?

 

In my quick look, it appeared Dare enlisted in 1911, and as USMCR79 posted, was in the hospital in Manila in April 1911.  That return also listed him as Field Artillery unassigned.  It appears he got out at the end of his enlistment in 1914.  His name is not on either of the medal rolls for Mexico.

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Hmmm....A strange name he has, but possible my research is for another? Would be uncanny that another Californian would go by Renzo, but I guess possible. I was assuming that the obituary made a typo saying that he served in WWII, rather than WWI. I was thinking that when he returned to the States and at Ft. Riley, which was home to the13th Cavalry Regiment, and he was sent to the Mounted Cavalry service, and his obituary has him listed as serving in WWI (assuming this was a typo) that he may have served served on the US border and possibly into Mexico with the 13th. Also, if he just enlisted in 1911, how could he have possibly served overseas to quailfy for the medal, be in the hospital and then sent back to Ft. Riley all in the same year? Possible I guess. It seems you have access to records I do not, so if my assumptions seem obtuse to you, it is because I am working from what I know, not from what you know. Also, from the 1913 El Paso Herald, it shows him as part of the 13th and made a Corporal. So as my research shows..... he was with the 13th Cavalry, on the border in El Paso in 1913.

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unclegrumpy

I think you are still missing the unit he served in the Philippines with.  He enlisted on January 6th, 1911, and was sent to Manila arriving in April 1911, likely sick.  Was listed as Field Artillery unassigned, and was in the hospital.  We don't know the unit he was assigned to once he got out of the hospital.  The next thing we know, is he was at the Cavalry School at Ft. Riley, and then finished his enlistment in the Cavalry on January 5th 1914 at Fort Ethan Allen...which is in Vermont.  

 

Maybe he was not assigned to a unit in the PI, and they just sent him home.  You would have to write for his service file to find out.  

 

 

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You asked 13th what....so I replied in kind to what I meant. It clearly states that he was with the 13th on the medal roll, no?, unless I'm mistaken. And, unless there was another Renzo Dare stationed in El Paso in 1913 serving with the 13th, is also what drew me to conclude that he was stationed on the Mexican border while with the 13th. Thank you for all of the info that you've provided. It has been very helpful to paint a better picture of his service until I have the time to send away for his file.

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According to the Army Register of Enlistments, Renzo Dare enlisted on January 6, 1911 into Troop C, 2nd Cavalry.  He was discharged January 5, 1914 as a corporal.

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By the way,  In the 1925 Kansas State Census and the 1930 Federal census, he is at Fort Riley with occupation of "Soldier."  Strangely enough "NO" is entered for the question of whether he is a veteran of the US Military.  He may have entered no as he was still on active duty.

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unclegrumpy
On 2/27/2021 at 7:17 PM, USMCR79 said:

No. 19637 was issued to Renzo Dare while he was at the Cavalry School at Ft. Riley

 

Bill

 

The medal roll will show what Bill posted.  We know that medal was issued in mid 1913, so Dare was likely at the Cavalry School then, or close to then, because he was at least at the Cavalry School when the medal was applied for.

 

You found Dare was in the 13th Cavalry.  The September 13th, 1913 article makes sense, because that would be about when he might have left the Cavalry School...with the medal you have already in hand...spending the last few months of 1913 serving on the border.

 

Beast...I think you are reading the entry incorrectly....Dare was discharged as a member of Troop C, 2nd Cavalry in January 1914...the 2nd was at Fort Ethan Allen then.

 

The time gap that is most relevant is April 1911 to whenever he got to the Cavalry School.  That year or so is when Dare was with the unit that qualified him for his Philippine Campaign Medal...and we don't know what that unit was.

 

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