Bullion pilot wings help.

[David B]

Hi guys,

 

I admit I know virtually nothing about bullion wings. Is there anything you can tell me about this pair? Are they wartime, American made or something else?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Dave

[Wake1941]

Looks WW2 CBI theater made 

[pfrost]

That is a beautiful bullion wing, but its hard to know where it was made and when.  Could be WWII vintage CBI, or it could be from between the wars. 

But if I had to offer my own humble opinion, based on the black mesh "stiffening/backing" material, and the thread work on the back, I would say it is probably US made.  The era is much harder to determine, but this kind of acorn shaped shield is often seen in wings made between the wars.  So... I would guess any time between 1920-1945... Unless you can find an autobiographical wing or dated picture, that is probably as good as you can get.  Although if it were in my collection, I would probably put it in the "Between the wars" ricker mount case and call it a 30's vintage wing. But others may quibble.

 

Its a really nice wing though.  So call it what you want!

 

[pfrost]

There is a very nice pinned thread on between the wars wings here:

 

 

But here is a photo of a guy wearing a similar wing to yours (Capt. Horace N. Heisen (1928)) via our own Cliff P.

And one from my collection where the shield is really "acorn" like

[rustywings]

Beautiful bullion Pilot wing Dave! Thank you for sharing it with us! 

 

I agree with Patrick's evaluation. In fact, we may be able to narrow the "between-the-wars" era a bit more with a width measurement from tip to tip.  I suspect your illustrated wing might be 3.5 inches or wider?  If so, there's a greater chance it was produced in the early-to-mid 1920's, before Army Air Corps Command began restricting the wider and more grand in design wings, in the name of uniformity. Some of the early post-WWI US made bullion wings had widths in the 3.5 to 4.5 inch range. If your wing is in the regulation 3.0 to 3.25 inch range, then Patrick's description is absolutely spot-on...        

[David B]

Wow, this is absolutely amazing guys! Thank you so much for all the info you have provided, I really do appreciate it. I'll have a read through the provided link asap, thanks Patrick.

 

The wing measure 3.25 inches dead on.

 

Would the wing originally have had any backing cloth or was it finished open like that?

[pfrost]

That photo is from ca 1928. And I see a lot of similarities between the wing in the picture and your wing.  Russ is correct, some of the earlier 20's vintage wings seem to have been larger than normal, but that isn't always the case.  But I would think you could make a reasonable argument of ca 1928 or so up to ca 1940's would be a good guess (as much as it is just a guess).  That in NO WAY takes anything away from its classic lines and great workmanship--its a stunner and I could live with it being late 20's too.

 

The wing bullion threads would have been sewn directly on a backing material (usually black or dark blue) melton fabric.  The tailor would have trimmed off that excessive material to sew the wings on the uniform.  Sometimes more (or less) of the underlying material would have been trimmed off.  I'm not sure it was anything other than personal preference.  Sometimes the wings were trimmed tightly, so it looked like the bullion was directly sewn to the uniform sometimes there was more fabric left behind to outline the wing.  You see it both ways in vintage photographs and uniforms. 

 

In your case, the tailor just trimmed off more the fabric than what you see in the photo. 
Also, if the wings were taken off a uniform, sometimes the underlying fabric got worn or moth eaten.  Then a little trimming may have occurred to get rid of the damage.

 

You can make up all sorts of stories.  LOL

 

 

 

[David B]

Absolutely fascinating Patrick, thank you again for all the info you have provided. 

To think I didn't really rate these wings much when I received them earlier today, I bought them with a 2.25 inch sterling pilot wing which is what I really wanted. Glad I've got them now :-)

[cwnorma]

I'm a bit of a pig looking at a wristwatch here (as they aren't WW1 wings), but I also believe it to be a "between the wars" piece.  The bullion types and construction are congruous with US-made WW1 era badges.

 

I especially like the slight upswept nature of the wing tips.  A very rakish badge - indeed!

 

Chris

[cwnorma]

1 hour ago, David B said:

Would the wing originally have had any backing cloth or was it finished open like that?

David,

I suspect you are talking about the back side of the badge?  The answer to your question then is yes.  Unlike British badges, most US made badges have no additional backing cloth or paper to protect exposed threads on the back of the badge.

[David B]

16 minutes ago, cwnorma said:

David,

I suspect you are talking about the back side of the badge?  The answer to your question then is yes.  Unlike British badges, most US made badges have no additional backing cloth or paper to protect exposed threads on the back of the badge.

 

It actually makes a change to see the construction method of a cloth badge. I honestly thought it was missing some type of backing material.

I'm learning all the time and this thread has been extremely informative. 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

This wing is in the Cliff Presley collection and featured on Bob Schwartz's site (www.ww2wings.com). I would say from the same maker/pattern but with a closer trimming and a different shade of the backing material.

 

 

 

[David B]

1 hour ago, rathbonemuseum.com said:

This wing is in the Cliff Presley collection and featured on Bob Schwartz's site (www.ww2wings.com). I would say from the same maker/pattern but with a closer trimming and a different shade of the backing material.

 

 

 

It does indeed look very similar 🤔

 

Is there a photo of the reverse?