WWI Town & County service medals

[Sumserbrown]

On 7/26/2021 at 11:48 PM, JimmyBerry2013 said:

I finally got my list in the mail to you hope it arrives shortly.  

Hi Jim,

hope all is well. Since receiving the list from you I have been using it extensively to help fill the gaps in Small's book on the subject. It would be useful for me if you added a column with the ribbon/brooch type for each medal, but I realize that would be a lot of work retrospectively.

 

Since you have such an extensive collection I would strongly recommend though that you write some books on the subject as you may be in a better position than anyone else out there at the moment. In particular I think it is essential that you compile a book on the medals issued by associations (churches, lodges, clubs etc) as there seems to be a gap in the market here.

 

I have one question on the Town & County medals though. In your list you had Copper Country, Michigan listed but have crossed it out. Recently I have just acquired one of these medals myself, so I was wondering why you had crossed it out in your list - any reason for that?

 

best wishes

Rob

 

[Sumserbrown]

I think we have all seen medal prices rise over the last few years and the US WWI Town and County medals have also risen in price, perhaps due to a combination of a higher number of collectors and shortage of good stock. However even I have been surprised at how much some of them can actually go for on Ebay when two or more bidders want the same medal and yesterday was a new Zenith (for me anyway).

There was an auction for a Lava Hot Springs, Idaho service medal. The 1920 census showed this village with 662 inhabitants, so Louis Small in his book estimated 27 medals issued. This particular medal is in good condition, on its original cardboard packaging, but it is not made of gold, or silver or a unique or unusual "X" type design. It is not named to a famous recipient, it is not named to a soldier who went overseas and was killed, in fact it's not named at all. It is one of the more common Whitehead and Hoag types, what Small refers to as a WH8. OK, so it's a rare medal in good condition, to a state you don't see very often, but other than that it is an un-named, common medal type struck in a non-precious metal and it sold on 30May23 for $1,135. To me that seems an incredible price, but maybe that is the way the market is going.

Happy collecting all,

Rob

 

[bertmedals]

Rob,

I watched that medal on eBay, as well.  I knew it would sell for a huge amount but didn't think it would go that high.  I've been tracking prices for WW1 medals for some time and I believe that is the highest one in my records surpassing the previous high of $1,064.99 for a Downey, Idaho medal.  Perhaps the Lava Hot Springs medal was purchased by the same person who purchased the Downey medal.  I have also recorded prices realized of $995.00 for a Park City, UT medal and (closer to home for me), $987.00 for a Chagrin Falls, OH medal.  I've seen a good number of local medals that have fallen in the $200.00 to $700.00 range.

 

I've tried for years to understand the psychology of auctions with little success.  But as you say, if there are 2 motivated and well-funded bidders after something the sky's the limit.  I imagine most people have had the experience I have in which very common and plentiful items will sell for ridiculously high prices and others that are extremely rare will go for a song.  I've been the victim and beneficiary of both situations over the years!  For many bidders factors other that absolute rarity are paramount including filling a hole for the "type collectors" (especially those in this area who want a medal from each community in their state), locality collectors, etc.

 

As for the rarity of WW1 town and county medals, like you, I rely on Louis Small's statistcal method.  His book has been very helpful to say the least.  Even he, however, notes that it is just an estimate.  The selection of men to go into the Service in WW1 was determined by many factors (physical condition, family and war ecomomy issues, etc,) that are not distributed consistently across the country.  I have encountered numerous instances in which the actual numbers from individual towns that were collected/recorded at the time vary widely from the statistical estimate, both more and less, and often are counterintuitive.  There are many instances even at the state level in which the numbers of medals procured far exceed the number actually needed in the event.  There is circumstantial evidence that some towns underestimated as well.  This alone makes the issue of scarcity even more difficult to ascertain.  Ultimately, many factors affect the presumed scarcity including numbers produced, numbers actually awarded, numbers that survived in the intevening 100+ years and numbers that actually make it to the market.

 

I'm sure I'll think of something else to add once I've mulled it over a bit.

 

Dennis

[JimmyBerry2013]

It is very interesting how high some of these medals are selling for.  I am glad I got the jump on collecting. I remember buying many of the medals now selling for hundreds of dollars for $25 and $30 dollars.  I have some rare ones on my bucket list so God knows what I will have to pay to add them.

[USMCR79]

Another resource for information which may be obtainable if you can get older copies was “Local and State Newsletter” - it was put out 15-20 years ago by Jeff Floyd, Nick McDowell and others - it was a newsletter that would get contributions of information on new Local and State finds which provided additional information that was found on L & S medals after Lou and Dick’s books were published - I think there were 20 of  us that received and contributed for a total of maybe 30 +/- issues.

 

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Basic Rifleman]

I recently picked up a WWI Victory/Service Medal from Chisholm, Minnesota. I noticed on Worthpoint the last one sold for nearly $400, which seemed high for a town with a 1920 population of nearly 9,100. I forget the equation used to estimate the amount of WWI service medals from a particular area or town, but there "should" be several hundred of these medals made for a town of this size, right? 

 

The problem I'm having is, the one that sold on eBay way back in 2011 for $390 was the only other one I could find record of online, while towns or even small counties of similar pop size have several dozen examples of sold listings on Worthpoint or other sites. So my question is, would there be a reason a town this size didn't have the "normal" amount of Veterans, or did some towns only issue medals to specific Veterans? 

 

I look forward to receiving some feedback from some of you who've been collecting these WWI service medals for decades.

[Basic Rifleman]

I just found this online.... "American Legion Post #247, Chisholm, Minnesota, is named "Press-Lloyd Post" in honor of Louis Press and Allen Lloyd, the two Chisholm veterans killed in World War I." This number of WWI KIA seems bizarre considering the same city had a smaller pop of 7,500 in 1940 and suffered 62 KIA/DOW/DNB in WWII according to a findagrave search of Chisholm, MN. 

 

https://www.findagrave.com/virtual-cemetery/547828?orderby=ra&page=1#sr-261807201

 

Lastly, here's the WWI Medal. I'm not familiar with the type/pattern. There are no engravings or makers marks on the reverse.