Siamundo Posted January 25, 2021 Share #1 Posted January 25, 2021 I recently picked up a smaller child's size set of a navy blue jumper, pants, and flat blue hat which I think are from the 1890's. Anyway, I was curious about the rate on the sleeve and wondered if it might be an original issue Model1886 or Model 1893 rate. It is very well made and looks oversized on the sleeve, It is approximately 4" high, 3" wide, and the chevrons about 2-1/2"+- wide. Hat has a USS Oregon tally so I had wondered if this uniform might have been tailored for the child of a sailor stationed aboard and made to resemble "dad's" as much a possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted January 26, 2021 Share #2 Posted January 26, 2021 On 1/24/2021 at 9:59 PM, Siamundo said: I recently picked up a smaller child's size set of a navy blue jumper, pants, and flat blue hat which I think are from the 1890's. Anyway, I was curious about the rate on the sleeve and wondered if it might be an original issue Model1886 or Model 1893 rate. It is very well made and looks oversized on the sleeve, It is approximately 4" high, 3" wide, and the chevrons about 2-1/2"+- wide. Hat has a USS Oregon tally so I had wondered if this uniform might have been tailored for the child of a sailor stationed aboard and made to resemble "dad's" as much a possible. I would say this is not an “issue “ rating badge. The style of the eagle is completely wrong. Addition, the stitching between chevrons is not correct style. It was made for the civilian “Middie” market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted January 27, 2021 Author Share #3 Posted January 27, 2021 OK, thank you. I found this picture attributed to the 1886 Navy Uniform Regulations manual and noticed although the wings were different, the eagle had a similar elongated goose like neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted January 27, 2021 Share #4 Posted January 27, 2021 7 hours ago, Siamundo said: OK, thank you. I found this picture attributed to the 1886 Navy Uniform Regulations manual and noticed although the wings were different, the eagle had a similar elongated goose like neck. If you look through this section of this forum, there are a lot of examples of the 1880s and up Original rating badges. None look like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdcnut Posted January 27, 2021 Share #5 Posted January 27, 2021 You must be careful of the uniform drawings in this Regulation they are spurious to say the least. Look at the actual drawings and description of the rating badges instead,and you will see the difference especially in the construction of the chevrons. All that aside this is one of the coolest childs uniforms ever I would think a sailor had it made for a child or nephew by someone familiar with Naval uniform construction and the rating badge is most likely the rank of the man who had it tailored. I would love to see more pictures of the hat and pants and Thankyou for posting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted January 28, 2021 Author Share #6 Posted January 28, 2021 Thank you topdcnut. I thought it was too cool to pass up. Here are some additional photos of all 3 pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted January 28, 2021 Share #7 Posted January 28, 2021 You can see some specialty mark illustrations from the uniform regulations here (they are negative images for some reason): https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-123000/NH-123274.html https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-123000/NH-123273.html Also the rating badge illustrations can be seen on pages 9 and 10 here: https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/NH-123000.html That kiddie uniform is absolutely superb, thanks for posting. The choice of rating badge is also interesting because Carpenter's Mate 1st Class in the old style rating badge was only authorized 1893-94. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted January 28, 2021 Share #8 Posted January 28, 2021 I would agree, the uniform itself, is amazing! The 4 small eyelets in the front on the fall, would have had a piece of black silk ribbon, like in the gusset in the back. That was a common decoration back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted January 28, 2021 Share #9 Posted January 28, 2021 Midis may have died out as a child's or woman's fashion item but Ralph Lauren keeps the military fashion look alive: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Posted January 28, 2021 Share #10 Posted January 28, 2021 Could it be a rating that was foreign manufactured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Minton Posted January 28, 2021 Share #11 Posted January 28, 2021 Could it be a rating that was foreign manufactured?It is so far off I would doubt it personally. Sometimes something is just what it appears to be. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdcnut Posted January 29, 2021 Share #12 Posted January 29, 2021 I am sure that the rating badge was intentionally made different, but by the looks of it the person who had this made was more than likely was a Carpetersmate 1st Class. Before the explosion of Middies around WW1 these were usually one off items made by the Tailor/Seamstress that made the actual Tailor-mades for the sailors them selves. And in many cases carried the individuals rank and rate. Aside from the patch this uniform is incredible, can we see the inside of the hat? Ohh and I was not slighting the patch it is an incredible version of a period Rating badge for a childs uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted January 29, 2021 Author Share #13 Posted January 29, 2021 Thank you everyone for your kind words. Thank you for the links Justin B., those are a nice reference source. As you mention topdcnut, I had wondered if it might be privately made-especially with the small details. I don't know much about children's uniforms from this era though. Here is the inside of the hat as requested. I had wondered if the hat itself might be an issue item, though in an extra small size. It measures about 10.5" across the top, but just guessing it might be a size 6 maybe? No labels or marking anywhere inside that I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Minton Posted January 29, 2021 Share #14 Posted January 29, 2021 Thank you everyone for your kind words. Thank you for the links Justin B., those are a nice reference source. As you mention topdcnut, I had wondered if it might be privately made-especially with the small details. I don't know much about children's uniforms from this era though. Here is the inside of the hat as requested. I had wondered if the hat itself might be an issue item, though in an extra small size. It measures about 10.5" across the top, but just guessing it might be a size 6 maybe? No labels or marking anywhere inside that I can see.Heads were smaller then. Here is my 6yo wearing an adult WAVES cap, and that was WWWII, fifty or so years after yours was made.And an adult dress cap when she was four. This is a similar jumper with authentic details, unlike most of the kid sailor suits I have seen. It has a normal WWI era QM 2c rate.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topdcnut Posted January 29, 2021 Share #15 Posted January 29, 2021 11 hours ago, topdcnut said: I am sure that the rating badge was intentionally made different, but by the looks of it the person who had this made was more than likely was a Carpetersmate 1st Class. Before the explosion of Middies around WW1 these were usually one off items made by the Tailor/Seamstress that made the actual Tailor-mades for the sailors them selves. And in many cases carried the individuals rank and rate. Aside from the patch this uniform is incredible, can we see the inside of the hat? Ohh and I was not slighting the patch it is an incredible version of a period Rating badge for a childs uniform. Other than the leather sweat band the hat has all of the detail of an adult one, would have liked to see the neckerchief but I suspect it my have been an adult one possibly. About what size child would have worn it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpcsdan Posted February 1, 2021 Share #16 Posted February 1, 2021 I do like the cap. Thanks for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamundo Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share #17 Posted February 3, 2021 Thanks dpcsdan. The hat was almost a bonus as it was lying flat and the seller had made no effort to open the bottom and discover there was a ship's tally on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeclown Posted June 19, 2021 Share #18 Posted June 19, 2021 The bird in the first set of pics looks like a goose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted June 20, 2021 Share #19 Posted June 20, 2021 On 1/28/2021 at 7:40 PM, David Minton said: Heads were smaller then. Here is my 6yo wearing an adult WAVES cap, and that was WWWII, fifty or so years after yours was made. And an adult dress cap when she was four. This is a similar jumper with authentic details, unlike most of the kid sailor suits I have seen. It has a normal WWI era QM 2c rate. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Swell pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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