Jump to content

New m1 helmet acquisition retention band question


AKC123
 Share

Recommended Posts

35 minutes ago, AKC123 said:


That’s kinda what I figured but I wasn’t sure. Given that if they aren’t rare or valuable outside the military then they would be even less so inside the military who presumably would have many thousands during the time this repair would have been made. So I wasn’t sure if someone would have experience in saying no the military would have just issued a new shell rather than repair it but I think you are most likely correct. 

No, To be sure the guy who had this when it broke got another one off the rack and this was repaired and put back in service. Things that could be repaired were repaired. The QM has to account for gear. For all I know this could have ended its time in a NG unit and they needed every helmet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, P-59A said:

No, To be sure the guy who had this when it broke got another one off the rack and this was repaired and put back in service. Things that could be repaired were repaired. The QM has to account for gear. For all I know this could have ended its time in a NG unit and they needed every helmet.

Yea makes sense. It doesn’t particularly bother me I was just curious if anyone had seen a repair of this nature. It would be nice if the chinstrap actually fit properly on the replacement bail but it’s no big deal I’m not planning to wear it haha. With a 69 liner, heavily faded retention band, fairly worn cover, worn sweatband with name written on it plus a broken and repaired shell I’m sure this helmet, or at least all its components, have seen their fair share of duty which is ultimately what collecting these items is about. I wish I could see the heat stamp to get an idea of the shell date though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is the name on the sweatband by the way in case anyone was interested. If this was a guard helmet I guess it was the Massachusetts guard given that it’s wearer hailed from Springfield. Come to think of it, no wonder it was broken.

EB5EF0C6-8B99-4D4D-BFAD-11B821F83D3E.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, AKC123 said:

Yea makes sense. It doesn’t particularly bother me I was just curious if anyone had seen a repair of this nature. It would be nice if the chinstrap actually fit properly on the replacement bail but it’s no big deal I’m not planning to wear it haha. With a 69 liner, heavily faded retention band, fairly worn cover, worn sweatband with name written on it plus a broken and repaired shell I’m sure this helmet, or at least all its components, have seen their fair share of duty which is ultimately what collecting these items is about. I wish I could see the heat stamp to get an idea of the shell date though. 

The idea is to find the best helmet for the price. Go to flea markets, thrift stores, estate sales and surplus stores and look for stuff out of the woods. As you grow your collection sell off the not so great items and reinvest in nicer items. You never know what you will find. I have had some luck with all of these places.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea Iv had very limited success with finding things in the wild but also I haven’t really searched all that much and mostly have bought things off of eBay or from other collectors. I thought this was a good example of a helmet from a period I was interested in and for a decent price but I probably wouldn’t have bought it had I been able to inspect it in person first. But it is what it is better luck next time. It’s still a decent example of the latter era of the m1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m not able to capture it in a photo as it takes some serious neck breaking and sophisticated angle working with a flashlight to get the hint of numbers but I’m pretty sure I see a heat stamp near the front inside bend to the brim. It looks to be a 4 digit number beginning with 1 and ending with 5 with the middle two being either 2,3,6 or 8 as all I can make out are the rounded tops. I think the third number is an 8 though so it’s likely either 1285,1385,1685 or 1885 and there may be an A suffix but it’s hard to tell if that may not just be scratches in the paint. Is there anyway to get a date range with that amount of info? If I had to say I’d say 1285 or 1285A. It’s a rear seam non stainless rim too if that matters. Iv tried to kinda take in heat stamp dates and makers but it’s all pretty confusing to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cap Camouflage Pattern I

During Urgent Fury only the 82nd had PASGT helmets, everyone else, even the rangers had M1s. 

 

In my opinion the repair is not US military. Spare chinstrap swivels could be ordered though supply and would be attached by spot welding, not with chewing gum. 

 

How large are are the lot numbers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

During Urgent Fury only the 82nd had PASGT helmets, everyone else, even the rangers had M1s. 

 

In my opinion the repair is not US military. Spare chinstrap swivels could be ordered though supply and would be attached by spot welding, not with chewing gum. 

 

How large are are the lot numbers?

That could be, I can see a surplus store doing it. No surplus stores in my area would do things like this, but who knows. These are just too plentiful and cheep. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

During Urgent Fury only the 82nd had PASGT helmets, everyone else, even the rangers had M1s. 

 

In my opinion the repair is not US military. Spare chinstrap swivels could be ordered though supply and would be attached by spot welding, not with chewing gum. 

 

How large are are the lot numbers?

They are the larger variety maybe a half inch or so? They are not the smaller variety as seen with some stamps. Yea as far as the repair goes It struck me as kinda odd which is why I asked here. Why wouldn’t they replace it with the same swivel bail? And why wouldn’t they have access to the same shade of paint? It just seemed like some back yard job. Which is a shame. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, P-59A said:

How much did you pay?

$70

 

$89 with tax and shipping. From eBay. Looked like the best deal for the era helmet I was looking for at the time. Honest wear, looked like it had pretty much been together as a complete set since it left the military, Vietnam liner and Erdl cover. I like the 70’s-80’s helmets. Most of the later M1’s on eBay seem to clearly be thrown together. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ouch! Go to swap meets. I find late war WW2 helmets for about 50 bucks. I found this for 35 bucks at a yard sale. Granted this is a once in a blue moon find, but stuff is out there. You just have to look. By the way it's worth way more than 35 bucks

20181117_210443.jpg

20181117_210525.jpg

20181117_210601.jpg

20181117_210611.jpg

post-169522-0-92578300-1529359588.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That’s a pretty sweet find. Yea I’d like to frequent such places just haven’t really been able to lately. There’s a small surplus shop I know of in my area near Ft. Meade but it’s past the era for finding M1’s there. I used to go to the Nations Gun Show in Chantilly VA. rather regularly and there’s usually a good amount of odds and ends there. But yea I need to find places to look other than eBay. Although I have like somewhere around      40-50 BDU,DCU and various cuts and patterns of jungle fatigue tops which have all basically my main collecting focus and have come mostly from eBay and many for pretty cheap around $15-20 which unless you find some at a random yard sale is about as cheap as Iv seen then anywhere if they are decently patched. Even the among the rows of packed tops on racks at the surplus store. So eBay isn’t all bad. Especially when many people selling uniforms are not collectors or dealers but just people trying to clean out their closets and whatnot. I guess helmets are a different story. Or I’m just bad at the game. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I picked up four Westinghouse factory M1C liners for 20 bucks each at a surplus store. They had no idea what they were. You have to look. Guys sell stuff to surplus stores all the time. Also look at antique stores.

post-169522-0-28202400-1528403907.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, P-59A said:

I picked up four Westinghouse factory M1C liners for 20 bucks each at a surplus store. They had no idea what they were. You have to look. Guys sell stuff to surplus stores all the time. Also look at antique stores.

post-169522-0-28202400-1528403907.jpg

Guess I’ll have to pay the one up my way a visit more often. Maybe my luck will change 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

During Urgent Fury only the 82nd had PASGT helmets, everyone else, even the rangers had M1s. 

 

In my opinion the repair is not US military. Spare chinstrap swivels could be ordered though supply and would be attached by spot welding, not with chewing gum. 

 

How large are are the lot numbers?

I’m pretty confident that the number is 1235A or 1285A in the larger font. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what Iv been able to read it seems this that if I’m correct about the numbers then it’s an RJ stallings shell circa 70-77 so it is contemporaneous with the rest of the helmet. As odd as it seems I do think the repair was most likely done but someone while the helmet was in service although probably not officially as part of a turn in repair. The fact that all the components except for the liner, although still pretty close, are around the same time period and the guy I bought it from being an older Korean War vet who I spoke with at length and who told me the helmet was bought from the estate sale of another vet who presumably owned it makes it seem less likely to me that some random person or surplus shop would have made this repair. Still possible but unlikely in my estimation. Maybe the former owner finished up in the NG and fixed it himself as best he coukd for whatever reason. Just seems strange an older veteran would buy a repaired shell from a surplus shop then store it away for it to end up in an estate sale. But who knows really. Anyway thanks for everyone’s replies I appreciate the input when trying to figure these things out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

The liner is a P64 (1964-1973) with the A-frames. This one appears to be 1969 dated. See: http://www.vietnamgear.com/kit.aspx?kit=604

The bail was probably a unit level or field repair.

Missing nape straps are not uncommon, many guys just didn't like them and threw them away.

The band is correct, 1970s/80s ones are a lighter green and thinner than the darker Kevlar bands. Until recently, I bought these for $1 each.

The clip-on angled chinstraps, as on this one, first appeared in 1973. See: http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/dating_m1.htm

My conclusion, I think your fears of someone putting this together are probably unfounded. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/1/2021 at 9:17 AM, MattS said:

The liner is a P64 (1964-1973) with the A-frames. This one appears to be 1969 dated. See: http://www.vietnamgear.com/kit.aspx?kit=604

The bail was probably a unit level or field repair.

Missing nape straps are not uncommon, many guys just didn't like them and threw them away.

The band is correct, 1970s/80s ones are a lighter green and thinner than the darker Kevlar bands. Until recently, I bought these for $1 each.

The clip-on angled chinstraps, as on this one, first appeared in 1973. See: http://www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/dating_m1.htm

My conclusion, I think your fears of someone putting this together are probably unfounded. 

Well thanks. I appreciate it. That’s basically the conclusion I came to as well. But I always prefer to seek opinions of people with more experience or even with personal experience who can say “yea Iv seen repairs of that nature before” or something like that. I probably think to much about such things but really I don’t buy items to try to get something at a good deal, although that is always desired, my main reason is to obtain and appreciate items that are representative of military history in the most authentic way possible. And unfortunately I don’t have too much access to original sources so eBay is mostly my go to. But I do plan to hit up more antique and consignment shop type places. Thanks 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This forum is one of the best resources to look at and buy original items. Don't hesitate to ask before making a purchase, that's how you learn what to look for and what to avoid. 

In general, items from the 1970s and later aren't nearly as faked as 1960s/Vietnam and earlier. I always buy 1970s M1s if reasonably priced because they are at least 40 years old. Last one I found at an antique mall was $25 with another $10 1960s liner next to it. In fact, my very first helmet was a 1970s M1 my Dad bought me in the mid-80s for $15 or so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...