WWII Sword Knives Made From Civil War Sabers

[mikedon]

I got my first example of this type of WWII sword knife in 2006, (M1860 Civil War Cavalry Saber cut down hilt section). I always thought most were made by unknown makers until recently. Last week a post was made from Italy about one of these sword knives found in a basement near Rome some 40 years ago. This knife had the soldiers name and service number stamped on the pommel, (A.J. Dudas). I posted pictures of some of mine and the Italian poster asked if any of mine came from Ohio. He had identified his knife was a soldiers from Cuyahoga Ohio. I pulled out my records and found four of mine did come from Ohio in the Cleveland area. Another poster mentioned he had seen an old Forum thread with an article about a guy from Cleveland that bought Civil War sabers and turned them into knives during WWII. I found the article transcript in several different Forum threads. It stated Charles Ambrose, operator of a wet grinding company in Cleveland, made fighting knives out of shortened Civil War sabers. One old post stated the company was still in business today. I found their webpage, Service Wet Grinding Company, in business since 1905. I sent them an inquiry and Lance Ambrose, grandson of Charles, confirmed that my sword knives were made by Charles Ambrose during WWII. He also stated Charles had badges made he sometimes riveted to the sword knife pommel. Stratasfan found two very interesting old newspaper ads for these sword knives. She said the short ad ran every day in 1943 and the larger ad ran in 1944. The larger ad states the 8”, 10”, and 12” blades were ground with a double edge. At least we know now where at least some of these WWII Cavalry Saber hilt knives came from. The Service Wet Grinding Company history is very interesting and can be found on their webpage.

[tthen]

Mikedon, outstanding example. I really like all these sword knives, and you have amasses quite a collection. Hope to find a nice Patton sabre hilt section some day.

[siclfde]

Great post - very informative👍

[SKIPH]

Mikedon- Good information, great pics. I don't see these around here.  SKIP

[manayunkman]

Very interesting topic.

 

What I don’t understand is having the soldiers name stamped into the handle.

 

Did the individual soldier do this?

 

Or did the company do this?

 

 

[Charlie Flick]

Good stuff, MikeDon.  Now we know the story behind these blades.  Thanks for the education.

 

Regards,

Charlie

[mikedon]

1 hour ago, manayunkman said:

Very interesting topic.

 

What I don’t understand is having the soldiers name stamped into the handle.

 

Did the individual soldier do this?

 

Or did the company do this?

 

 

I believe the company did that because all of the individual stamped letters on my four knives brass pommels, and several other examples with brass pommels I have seen, are exactly the same. My M1906 with the steel pommel, (R.N. Thomas), is different because I don't think those stamps would work on the steel.

[Tony V]

Mike 

 

  Very good information ! Thank you for the posting

 

Tony

 

[stratasfan]

Fabulous thread and such an interesting history! Love these knives! Might have to add this to my wish list now! They are so cool! Can't thank you enough for sharing, as I would never have known about these, if you hadn't messaged me about that one! 

[sactroop]

Congratulations on a great thread, this one is a real gem.

[dcollector]

Great info, Mike, and kudos on the detective work.

So, cool to piece together info. like this.

Thank you.

 

Jesse.

[aznation]

Those are some wonderful knives Mike and even better with stories behind them.  Thank you for sharing both.  --Matt

[ccyooper]

Thanks for sharing. It’s always fun when you find a tidbit of information that provides information to something that you are researching or interested in. 

[jim_mi]

Very interesting. I have this modified sword which may also be made by Service Wet Grinding Company. Name and serial number are similarly stamped on the brass pommel.

 

Jim

[mikedon]

1 hour ago, jim_mi said:

Very interesting. I have this modified sword which may also be made by Service Wet Grinding Company. Name and serial number are similarly stamped on the brass pommel.

 

Jim

I  believe that is more than likely one he made. It looks to have an 8" blade with the double edge grind like shown in the large ad. It also has the solid electrical wire on the grip, (three of mine have the same solid wire on the grip). If your pommel stamping is the same size and style as the others shown that would be even more evidence yours is a Service Wet Grinding sword knife. 

Very nice knife and sheath. 

[siclfde]

Here is one I have had for many years - very well made.  I like the fact that this one has the guard ground down on one side to make it easier to carry.  No name on the handle.

[stratasfan]

5 hours ago, jim_mi said:

Very interesting. I have this modified sword which may also be made by Service Wet Grinding Company. Name and serial number are similarly stamped on the brass pommel.

 

Jim

 

What is the name? I could look and see if your gent was from the Cuyahoga area, too! :) Beautiful example, that's for sure! 

[jim_mi]

2 hours ago, stratasfan said:

 

What is the name? I could look and see if your gent was from the Cuyahoga area, too! :) Beautiful example, that's for sure! 

L.O. Shirley

Also... The blade is indeed 8", with a sharpened top edge.

I wondered about the unusual wire wrap, and concluded that the electrical wire had been added well after the knife was originally modified. It's good to know that this type of wire was originally used by the maker.

 

[stratasfan]

Leslie O. Shirley

Born 1907

 

 

Enlistment:

 

 

WWII Draft Reg:

 

 

 

 

Find A Grave:

 

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/92146761/leslie-o-shirley

 

 

 

 

 

So, a Texan who enlisted white he was briefly residing in the greater Cleveland area! 

 

Obit:

 

 

 

[stratasfan]

So, question! @mikedon - Seeing that you have some made by Ambrose and some others that are not . . . is it the added wire that made you think that @jim_mi had an Ambrose knife?

[mikedon]

33 minutes ago, stratasfan said:

So, question! @mikedon - Seeing that you have some made by Ambrose and some others that are not . . . is it the added wire that made you think that @jim_mi had an Ambrose knife?

That and that it matched some of mine that Lance Ambrose had identified as made by his grandfather, (guard shape & blade grind). Also it had the soldiers name and service number stamped on the pommel. Lance sent me some pictures of some of the knives he owned that Charles Ambrose made and they all did not have a double edge grind. Charles must have used the single strand electrical wire to replace the original twisted brass wire grip wrap that was damaged or missing when he made the knives. The letter "E" in Shirley matched the the letter "E" in my Krueger, Fiddes, and Lewandoski knives exactly.

Lance sent me a picture of the stamps he thinks very well may be the ones his grandfather used to put the names on the knives.

[mbiava]

This is another great clue!

Dudas' knife has remmants of the original twisted brass wire.

rgds

marcello

[mbiava]

[mbiava]

The D of the stamp set matches the name on this knife too...

Rgds

marcello

[sactroop]

I move we pin this thread.