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Help with civil war era? Navy patch?


Deward
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Hello !

I have had this patch for years and decided an attempt to figure it out was in order. Looking though this forum it seems to be a Petty Officer’s patch? It is 3 3/4” tall and 2 1/2” wide. Hoping some experts here can help me. My area of collecting is WWII. This is out of my league.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Deward said:


Hello !

I have had this patch for years and decided an attempt to figure it out was in order. Looking though this forum it seems to be a Petty Officer’s patch? It is 3 3/4” tall and 2 1/2” wide. Hoping some experts here can help me. My area of collecting is WWII. This is out of my league.

 

 

image.jpeg.b7ac62ce67316d8eeb19f88a8a7f5ad6.jpeg84E029C7-E85F-4B27-86EE-DD1097846C9A.jpeg.3abe015e071cdc7e77e03f97fc100334.jpeg

Why, yes indeed, that style (pattern), was in use from 1852-1866. It is on linen. All petty officer badges were individually hand embroidered. Mostly by the individual Sailor, or someone with more skill. Some were made commercially, some made at home. The pre 1866 badges have droopy wings. Eagle normally looks over his left shoulder, but some are seen looking over the right. There was only the barest if description in regs as to what it was to look like. Basically, an anchor surmounted by an eagle with a star above, 3 inches tall. So, pretty much, no 2 look alike. This is a very nice one, I’m going to copy it. 

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suwanneetrader

I've never seen this patch before except in pictures.  I want to put it in my ref so would appreciate a ballpark value.  I'm looking thru my ref for a CW Navy Seaman's uniform from about 19 years ago I think it had a patch and was $2,000.00  but my memory is not what it used to be. :) Richard

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51 minutes ago, Deward said:

Thanks so much for the reply. Any idea what he is holding in his beak? A ribbon, chain, banner? 

A ribbon. Many period eagles had ribbons with patriotic slogans on them. This is really too small to pick it out, so just “Tics” to look like words. 

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On 12/29/2020 at 11:22 PM, suwanneetrader said:

I've never seen this patch before except in pictures.  I want to put it in my ref so would appreciate a ballpark value.  I'm looking thru my ref for a CW Navy Seaman's uniform from about 19 years ago I think it had a patch and was $2,000.00  but my memory is not what it used to be. :) Richard

 

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22 hours ago, Deward said:

I have no idea what the ballpark value of the patch would be. Maybe Someone else has an idea.

I would love to see some more close up photos. Especially if the light blue ares on the eagles chest.
Ok, so a friend of mine, bought a Civil War Sailors shaving kit, at a gun show, a few years ago. There was a PO badge in the kit. He paid $25 for the whole deal. Another friend was given one about 50 years ago when he was 14, for helping a neighbor clean out a “Bunch of old Navy Junk” out of a storage shed. It was part of the “Old Navy Junk”. 
 

 

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13 minutes ago, sigsaye said:

I would love to see some more close up photos. Especially if the light blue ares on the eagles chest.
Ok, so a friend of mine, bought a Civil War Sailors shaving kit, at a gun show, a few years ago. There was a PO badge in the kit. He paid $25 for the whole deal. Another friend was given one about 50 years ago when he was 14, for helping a neighbor clean out a “Bunch of old Navy Junk” out of a storage shed. It was part of the “Old Navy Junk”. 
 

 

BTW, trying to look as closely at the light blue area in the chest, looks sort of like the beginnings, (remains?), of a US shield. Also a very common motif of the time. 

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DDAAE861-08BA-4949-A1B5-6E9C8C7BD8EE.jpeg.9a85eebd137d426f64ecafdc4b74d2c0.jpeg711556A4-02B8-41C6-B410-4B5B1269D30F.jpeg.1633245c1ef62ca308d2781159f4007a.jpegHopefully these help. The stitching seems to be intact where the shield is. In my humble opinion it’s the way it was made. Of course I’m no expert.

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Yeah to me it was well worth the $25 dollars I paid for it with the three GAR ribbons , 2 17th Michigan inf, and a Soldiers and Sailors GAR, that were included. All the items came out of an old Michigan family Bible  that came into a local antique store. Unfortunately the Bible was long gone when I bought the items. I would have liked to get the name form it. Suwanneetrader above appeared interested in a value. 

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Something else the wife and I noticed, this badge would look forward on a left sleeve. Those are mocha more rare than those which face forward on the right sleeve. Very interesting 

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I didn’t think of that...
I wonder if they were worn on right/left sleeves based on job/duties? 

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Mustang.CDR

This is a quoted paragraph from the Navy History and Heritage Command website:

https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2019/11/01/the-history-of-navy-rank-or-rate-enlisted-personnel/

 

 

Over time the Navy’s system of rates and ratings became more formalized. Petty officers first received distinctive uniform insignia in the Navy regulations of 1841, when they were instructed to wear an eagle perched on an anchor on one uniform sleeve. Boatswain’s mates, gunner’s mates, carpenter’s mates, masters at arms, ship’s stewards and ship’s cooks wore it on the right sleeve while quarter masters, quarter gunners, captains of the forecastle, captains of tops, captains of the afterguard, armorers, coopers, ship’s corporals and captains of the hold wore it on the left sleeve.

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1 hour ago, Deward said:

I didn’t think of that...
I wonder if they were worn on right/left sleeves based on job/duties? 

Yes. 

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Mustang.CDR

For comparison here are two examples of petty Officer badges in blue. One is a Civil War vintage badge in rather poor condition (displayed in a frame with a black backing makes it more presentable) and the other is an 1866 pattern example. Note the difference in the wing spread on the eagles. 

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Hi,

Those are very nice, thanks for posting them. I really like the frame, it appears very old. I never realized how old mine was. I always thought Span-am war for some reason. Glad I found this forum.

Jim

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One of the things you also notice about the blue ACW badges, is the quality of the workmanship. That one is very artfully made. I would assume it would have been for his best blues or his jacket. 

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