Very early J&D Tool Co. M5 bayonets

[Misfit 45]

J&D Tool Company M5 bayonet

Here we have two very early J&D Tool Co. M5 bayonets.

The first M5 is an early M5 which used blades supplied by Camillus.  I suspect that the blades were forged by Camillus but not finished, because the completed bayonets are not finished to the standards that Camillus had employed with their M4 blades. These blades can be identified by the 90 degree back cut.  Both M5s have the fat grips, typical of early M5s.

 

The second J&D M5 has the same crude , early, finishing method, but this time they used their famous radiused runout.  What I like about this particular M5, is that it shows that the radius is cut with a separate circular milling tool, rather than by simply using one grinding wheel and turning the blade during the grinding process. 

Notice the deep cut of the radius. I can feel the depression of the radius with my finger.  Notice how the metal is smeared as the tool gouges out the radius. 

The crudeness of the process is surprising.  The grinding grooves on the false edge are so pronounced that the sharpened edge almost looks serrated.

Later J&D M5s and M5A1s were finished to a much higher degree.  Even though these two M5s are crudely made, they are a study on how they finally got to a finished product. The second M5 is actually in "near mint" condition!

 

The question always arises as to why J&D Tool was allowed to use this circular runout, when all the other manufacturers had a sharply stopped back cut.

Since there is no documentation as to why J&D Tool was permitted this variance, I would have to speculate that the radius used by them was sufficient to be called “ near 90 degrees”, as required by the Defense Dept.  Maybe that’s not correct, but it’s the only idea I can come up with.

 

The sloped runouts you see on later M5A1 bayonets by Imperial and Milpar, were not US issued bayonets, but were sent to foreign governments, or simply sold commercially.  As I am writing this, I do not recall any other companies that made sloped runouts on their M5A1s. (other than foreign M5s)

Thanks for reading this.

Marv

 

[SKIPH]

Marv- Is there a DAS stamp on either of the bayonets. They sure have rough blades. SKIP

[Misfit 45]

 

13 minutes ago, SKIPH said:

Marv- Is there a DAS stamp on either of the bayonets. They sure have rough blades. SKIP

 

Yes, both have the DAS mark.  The first pic is the Camillus blade, the second is the radiused  blade.  The blades are really rough, and you cannot blame it on war time expediency, since we weren't at war in 1954.

[sactroop]

Great post Marv, thanks.

[Misfit 45]

Hi Folks,

Just a footnote to this post. I found another J&D Tool M5 with a Camillus blade. This one is a much better finished example. I guess the quality control varied quite a bit.  This one is double stamped. Actually, the reason I bought it is because of the scabbard. It was in a VIZ/WD  M8A1 with a DAS ink stamp.

Marv

[SKIPH]

That double stamp is cool!  SKIP

[Frank Trzaska]

Nice observation Marv. Again another example of a prime contractor going to a cutlery company to get the parts. This one even made a real effort to do it them selves but as we can see the results were a bit disappointing.

[9th Infantry Manchu]

My J&D M5 box for reference if anyone needs it. Jim

[Misfit 45]

Very nice.  That's an early one. I'd love to see what's inside, but don't open it.

Marv

[9th Infantry Manchu]

Sadly it was opened when I got it and it didnt have the right bayonet in it...I snagged it because I'd never seen that box out in the open for sale and didnt have one. 

[Misfit 45]

The box itself is still a great find.  Thanks for showing.

Marv