48MMS Posted January 25, 2009 Share #1 Posted January 25, 2009 Hello, attached is a patch that has stumped many over the years. I obtained it with a group of USAF Radar Squadron patches. It's previous owner Art LaMothe fails to answer my emails and so the mystery continues. I find it hard to believe that no one can ID this patch. I have tried Jerry Polder, Alec Fushi, Steindaddie, Terry Horstead to name a few. The only thing I know pretty much for sure is that it is not Canadian, or at least not RCAF T-33. Thinking it might be a DSES unit(?), but with the wealth of collectors here, I would hope the ID will be forthcoming. Thank you, Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted January 25, 2009 Share #2 Posted January 25, 2009 Actually, there is something in the back of my mind that says that it is also for a USAF Radar Station unit. I'd swear I have seen it before. Have you tried looking at usafpatches.com? Also, I believe you can post it on there as an unkown to see if anyone can ID it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted January 25, 2009 Share #3 Posted January 25, 2009 I didn't find it in their Not Inscribed gallery, Gil - but, would place it on that forum for ID like you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted January 25, 2009 Share #4 Posted January 25, 2009 Actually, there is something in the back of my mind that says that it is also for a USAF Radar Station unit. I'd swear I have seen it before. Have you tried looking at usafpatches.com? Also, I believe you can post it on there as an unkown to see if anyone can ID it. So very close. I looked through my Radar Unit book and there are some units that have patches that are somewhat similar. The 626th AC&W Sq is one with a cat holding lightning bolts in one hand and a plane in the other. The 653rd AC&W Sq has something (I can't tell what it is) with the same sort of pose as the 626th. Whatever unit it is, it sure looks like a Radar Squadron or an AC&W Squadron of some sort...... -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share #5 Posted January 25, 2009 Thank you for the help so far. I'm pretty sure it has been on USAFPatches.com before. I think in time someone will see it and Id it. For now I agree, it has to be radar/ACWS related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted January 25, 2009 Share #6 Posted January 25, 2009 Dunno if this is relevant or not, but the aircraft that fox is holding in his hand most closely resembles (I think), a T-33 Shooting Star - which could help date the image at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted January 25, 2009 Judging from the cheesecloth backing, I'd say early sixties. I agree it is a T-33 not a F-94. I'm not up on what DSES units did, I assume they help train Radar/ACW units? Collecting is half the fun, learning about these units is the other. Thank you, Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steindaddie Posted January 25, 2009 Share #8 Posted January 25, 2009 Al - You're right about the role of the DSES's They would test the capability Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ) by playing the role of enemy bombers. Good training for the radar scope dopes and the interceptor aircraft. When I was at MacDill in 1979, we had a new crew chief arrive who had just PCS'd from the last active duty DSES at Malmstrom, the 17th DSES ("17th Disease" as he called it). He had worked on the EB-57's there - an aircraft I had never heard of. He also mentioned they were constantly TDY. I have the same patch and have never had a clue to it's origins. Maybe it's Navy? ~Former roommate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share #9 Posted January 25, 2009 Yes, Navy is an option. And for those of you who didn't know, Bill was my roommate at Eielson. I for the record was the one that snored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted January 25, 2009 Share #10 Posted January 25, 2009 Hilarious! What are the odds..... -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLHorstead Posted January 26, 2009 Share #11 Posted January 26, 2009 Al - You're right about the role of the DSES's They would test the capability Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ) by playing the role of enemy bombers. Good training for the radar scope dopes and the interceptor aircraft. When I was at MacDill in 1979, we had a new crew chief arrive who had just PCS'd from the last active duty DSES at Malmstrom, the 17th DSES ("17th Disease" as he called it). He had worked on the EB-57's there - an aircraft I had never heard of. He also mentioned they were constantly TDY. I have the same patch and have never had a clue to it's origins. Maybe it's Navy? ~Former roommate Al, we (328th Fighter Wing - my first assignment out of basic in 1966) had about 20 T-33A's not assigned to the 326th or 71st Fighter Interceptor Squadrons, but assigned to the 328th Field Maintenance Squadron / Base Flight Section to support HQ Tenth Air Force / Central NORAD Region Tactical Evaluation requirements. I was under the understanding that ADC's Fourth Air Force / Western NORAD Region was set up the same way, But since 1st AF & 14th AF were not on bases with a full ADC fighter wing assigned, I don't know how they were organized. This could be (and this is only a possible option) a UNOFFICIAL Base Fight / TAC Eval Section - we may never know. Terry Horstead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share #12 Posted January 26, 2009 I agree that it is in all probablity a flight, and more than likely unoffical. I'm more caught in the fact that it has gone without an ID for so long, and that a number of collectors have it in their "unknown" pile. Thanks for the info! And to all the forum members, Terry is an absolute wealth of knowledge that has been a Godsend to my journey learning about USAF units. I truly appreciate the insights. Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steindaddie Posted January 26, 2009 Share #13 Posted January 26, 2009 Yes, Navy is an option. And for those of you who didn't know, Bill was my roommate at Eielson. I for the record was the one that snored. Ever since those days at Eielson in 1982 Al and I have managed to get along quite well. If we were going to strangle one another, it would have happened as roommates. Bill/Will (I get called both, and a few other things too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share #14 Posted January 26, 2009 I want you to know that Bill is a class act and the one I owe for really infecting me with "patch fever", a fever that I want no cure for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluehawk Posted January 26, 2009 Share #15 Posted January 26, 2009 Dunno if this is relevant or not, but the aircraft that fox is holding in his hand most closely resembles (I think), a T-33 Shooting Star - which could help date the image at least. It could also be, a stretch, a REALLY bad attempt to represent the RB-57? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share #16 Posted January 26, 2009 A very bad attempt at a RB-57, but it is possible. I know they did T-33 training at Webb AFB, and I did write the museum, but nothing to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLHorstead Posted January 27, 2009 Share #17 Posted January 27, 2009 A very bad attempt at a RB-57, but it is possible. I know they did T-33 training at Webb AFB, and I did write the museum, but nothing to date. The T-33 was the basic ATC pilot training aircraft from 1949 to early 1960;s The last T-Bird was received by ATC in 1959 The T-37 replaced the T-33 as the primary trainer with deliveries starting in 1958, The T-33 reained in the ATC Inventory till 1966 Terry L Horstead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MMS Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share #18 Posted January 27, 2009 Hello. Received a note from Art, he never received my previous emails, so never had a chance to weigh in. However the mystery continues, he doesn't know, but thought it was radar related. Thanks Art and to everyone who has offered some insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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