917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Share #1 Posted November 23, 2020 Pulled this one out to examine the lead shrapnel balls. While most of these examples are quite common ( fired and reassembled with expended parts) this one is unfired and has the pusher tube. The lead balls are correct diameter but modern manufactured. The story goes the shell was designed around the huge surplus of lead round ball the military had when they discarded the cap and ball revolvers. Link to comment
Lsparks Posted November 23, 2020 Share #2 Posted November 23, 2020 What fills the rest of the void inside the shell?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted November 23, 2020 The shell is like a flying shotgun shell, directional forward. The timed fuze ignites a powder train which burns through the center of the plunger. The powder charge at the base explodes pushing out the balls- ( about 1200 FPS) the fuze is fine threaded with an adapter coarse threaded and gives way easily. All the “ bring back” fired ones you see are the parts found on the ground, the fuze, the plunger( usually deformed badly), the shell case then “put together “. The plunger and shell casing falling to the ground were lethal by themselves., millions covered the fields. Unfired specimens very hard to find , I have two acquired from a retired artillery officers estate, years ago. Link to comment
Lsparks Posted November 23, 2020 Share #4 Posted November 23, 2020 I understand how they work. But looking at your column of balls, compared to the inside diameter, it SEEMS like the shot column is quite a bit smaller than ID. So what can we not see from your original set of pics? To add, I have one in hand now, fired. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share #5 Posted November 23, 2020 Interesting to note in later war HE shells were developed as the shrapnel shells were only directional, the lead balls propelled forward and downwards rather slowly due to the blackpowder propelling charge. HE shells used the steel shell casing itself exploding into extremely fast moving steel fragments traveling in every direction. Shrapnel had it’s benefits. Fuzes were set so advancing troops could follow closely ( 50 yards) the forward bursting shrapnel shells, not possible with HE shells. As a note, the shrapnel rounds lead balls were mixed in a smoke “ matrix” so the gunners could see where the rounds were bursting. Short or improperly set times on the fuzes resulted in hitting their own advancing troops.Historical accounts state the infantry were instructed to follow as close as 50 yards behind the forward spewing shrapnel balls and smoke. Link to comment
917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share #6 Posted November 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, Lsparks said: I understand how they work. But looking at your column of balls, compared to the inside diameter, it SEEMS like the shot column is quite a bit smaller than ID. So what can we not see from your original set of pics? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk There would be another row of balls increasing the diameter. I reduced the ball stack up diameter so they could be removed easily with just unscrewing the fuze. The fuze screws into an adapter on the shell body. When discharged, the adapter blew off, a much larger diameter. I was not able to unscrew the adapter, it could be done but I did not want to nick and score it up. Link to comment
Lsparks Posted November 23, 2020 Share #7 Posted November 23, 2020 There would be another row of balls increasing the diameter. I reduced the ball stack up diameter so they could be removed easily with just unscrewing the fuze. The fuze screws into an adapter on the shell body. When discharged, the adapter blew off, a much larger diameter. I was not able to unscrew the adapter, it could be done but I did not want to nick and score it up. Thanks. From what I’ve seen with expended rounds, the whole “hat” assembly containing the Fuze & adapter, seems to remain intact when the Fuze functions. I’ve not found a center tube. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment
917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted November 23, 2020 You can see the adapter in this period diagram. US on left. Link to comment
917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted November 23, 2020 Here are a few pics of another identical 75mm of mine, but in untouched, as issued original colors. The adapter and plunger intact. Notice the brass “ cone” that was attached to protect the fuze during transit. The US 75mm shrapnel round was shipped assembled with fuze in place.I consider this round the rarest in my collection. Link to comment
917601 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted November 23, 2020 The faint ink markings “75G-H”on the faded red are still visible. I suspect that denotes 75mm Howitzer and Gun interchangeability but have not been able to find any period TM or manual references. Can anyone confirm? Link to comment
illinigander Posted November 25, 2020 Share #11 Posted November 25, 2020 The CW cap & ball revolvers were rifled and the bullets were therefore pointed, unsuitable as case shot. illinigander Link to comment
EmperorWangDong Posted November 25, 2020 Share #12 Posted November 25, 2020 Hate to be anywhere near the receiving end of one of those, impressive piece of ordnance! Link to comment
Story Posted June 16, 2022 Share #13 Posted June 16, 2022 Anyone recognize this lot number? LOT 55 10-A-105-17 Link to comment
Kileriuxser Posted September 16, 2023 Share #14 Posted September 16, 2023 Hellow, can someone tell me witch one is this shell? It looks like british but no timer nothing. And is it safe to try open this rusted one? Link to comment
The Rooster Posted September 16, 2023 Share #15 Posted September 16, 2023 I would thi 17 hours ago, Kileriuxser said: Hellow, can someone tell me witch one is this shell? It looks like british but no timer nothing. And is it safe to try open this rusted one? I would think you would be risking life and limb messing around with that. A guy in the States here, several years ago, was killed by an explosion of a civil war (1860-1865) munition he was trying to open. I think it was a cannon ball? Looks like unexploded munition that was dug or picked up. Personally, I would not try to open it. Prob the kind of thing a Bomb Squad should deal with. ? Link to comment
mikie Posted September 17, 2023 Share #16 Posted September 17, 2023 4 hours ago, The Rooster said: I would thi I would think you would be risking life and limb messing around with that. A guy in the States here, several years ago, was killed by an explosion of a civil war (1860-1865) munition he was trying to open. I think it was a cannon ball? Looks like unexploded munition that was dug or picked up. Personally, I would not try to open it. Prob the kind of thing a Bomb Squad should deal with. ? If that is the same guy I used to buy from, he was a longtime dealer and collector who had deactivated many many shells. Sad that one day his luck ran out. mikie Link to comment
Kileriuxser Posted September 17, 2023 Share #17 Posted September 17, 2023 12 hours ago, The Rooster said: I would thi I would think you would be risking life and limb messing around with that. A guy in the States here, several years ago, was killed by an explosion of a civil war (1860-1865) munition he was trying to open. I think it was a cannon ball? Looks like unexploded munition that was dug or picked up. Personally, I would not try to open it. Prob the kind of thing a Bomb Squad should deal with. ? But what kind of shell is this? There is no timer? Link to comment
AustinO Posted September 17, 2023 Share #18 Posted September 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Kileriuxser said: But what kind of shell is this? There is no timer? I would say it does no matter what kind it is, it's live and a risk. It is certainly not US, and as that is the scope of this forum we will not be able to help you. Link to comment
The Rooster Posted September 17, 2023 Share #19 Posted September 17, 2023 1 hour ago, AustinO said: I would say it does no matter what kind it is, it's live and a risk. It is certainly not US, and as that is the scope of this forum we will not be able to help you. The top part of it closely resembles the French shell in the drawings above. Like Austin O said.............. Its live and its a risk. Call the police and have them pick it up. Hi Mikie, dont know if its the same guy. Sounds like it. Yea he knew what he was doing, had a lot of experience and still got killed. And he had defused many of them before.. Its hard for some people to believe that an old rusty shell will still work and explode if messed with. In my honest opinion... get rid of it. Link to comment
teufelhund Posted September 17, 2023 Share #20 Posted September 17, 2023 German MINNEWERFER 76mm shell in my opinion Fired but not exploded , or otherwise a DUD ( see the grooved copper belt). French proverb... unknown item ,touch your a.. Link to comment
Maxrobot Posted September 20, 2023 Share #21 Posted September 20, 2023 The Shrapnel round had the fuze screwed into a sort of adapter. This in turn was screwed into the shell body. When the shell was activated, in mid-air, the adapter with the fuze was sheared off allowing the full load of shrapnel balls to be fired out. These balls were travelling as fast as the shell and had added momentum from the black powder expelling charge. Shrapnel was great against troops in exposed positions and the balls came down at an angle. WW1 helmets were developed as protection against the rain of balls. During the war, combatants found high explosive to be better in trench warfare and post WW1 shrapnel rounds were made obsolete. the OD color is incorrect. I painted his fired and recovered 75mm shrapnel round with M1907 fuze before the internet. It has 27 grooves in the rotating band and the French M1897 75mm had 27 lands and grooves. Link to comment
268th C.A. Posted September 20, 2023 Share #22 Posted September 20, 2023 I'd toss it off a deep river bridge... or let the authorities deal with it. Link to comment
Kileriuxser Posted September 21, 2023 Share #23 Posted September 21, 2023 6 hours ago, Maxrobot said: The Shrapnel round had the fuze screwed into a sort of adapter. This in turn was screwed into the shell body. When the shell was activated, in mid-air, the adapter with the fuze was sheared off allowing the full load of shrapnel balls to be fired out. These balls were travelling as fast as the shell and had added momentum from the black powder expelling charge. Shrapnel was great against troops in exposed positions and the balls came down at an angle. WW1 helmets were developed as protection against the rain of balls. During the war, combatants found high explosive to be better in trench warfare and post WW1 shrapnel rounds were made obsolete. the OD color is incorrect. I painted his fired and recovered 75mm shrapnel round with M1907 fuze before the internet. It has 27 grooves in the rotating band and the French M1897 75mm had 27 lands and grooves. So means if it is not flying at hight speed it means it is dangerus only from front at low distance? If it is contained and pointed outwards it wont do a thing, no? I find a lot of bombs and this type thei mostly put in car trunk and drive off :D that tells me it is.t so dangerious as others ones Link to comment
iron bender Posted September 21, 2023 Share #24 Posted September 21, 2023 Everyone is a statistic of some sort. Don't be the one killed by unexploded ordnance. This shell needs to be dealt with correctly. Let your local EOD deal with it. It's not worth it. If you pass it on to someone else or leave it on a shelf for 50 years, someone could pay the price Link to comment
Kileriuxser Posted September 21, 2023 Share #25 Posted September 21, 2023 8 minutes ago, iron bender said: Everyone is a statistic of some sort. Don't be the one killed by unexploded ordnance. This shell needs to be dealt with correctly. Let your local EOD deal with it. It's not worth it. If you pass it on to someone else or leave it on a shelf for 50 years, someone could pay the price Yeh i guess I'll just call ^_^ Link to comment
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