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WW1 Signal Corps Grouping w/ Damaged M1917 Helmet


RememberThe5thESB

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RememberThe5thESB

Just bought this, probably spent too much but I think it was well worth it. There was another jacket, a hygiene/sewing kit, and riders pants, that I did not purchase.

 

However, included in what I got was a garrison cap with green piping and US insignia.

A pre-war RIA haversack (not sure of the model, M1904?), which has the mans service number, matching the one in his jacket.

Complete US M1917, rougher shape, but possible shrapnel damage? Hopefully not just some kids .22.

A pair of puttees, and leather cavalry gaiters.

2x dress caps. One has an eagle badge, the other a signal Corp badge.

M1917 with collar discs, patches. (Not too sure on the meaning of them), and the pants.

 

I hope that I didn't do too bad for $420... If I got burned, let me know.

 

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Pictures?

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."

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RememberThe5thESB

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the green felt/piping on the garrison cap might mean?

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a.jpg.7003e5fd32d13e8a5f2454ed96f0fbb1.jpg

 

In your attached photo (included above) I can see a pair of pants hanging inside the coat.

 

You also said, "There was another jacket, ... , and riders pants, that I did not purchase."  Is this the

second coat and pants, or did your coat also come with a pair of pants?

 

Anyway, your coat is what the collectors call the "Pershing" type without the exterior patch

pockets.   It is better described as the Coat, Specification 1356 Aug 28th, 1918 - Mar 25th, 1919.

 

The contract date on your coat puts it as post-war and right at the end of that particular specification.

There was a change of material (wool) composition and a subsequent specification 1356E was

issued for an identical appearing coat.  Both coats used 20 oz OD Melton wool, but 1356E called for

"Type C suiting".   This type coat did not last long in either form. 

 

As for the 'pants': For this uniform, woolen trousers (not breeches) would be appropriate.  The correct

designation being Specification 1372 Sep 24th, 1918 - Jun 25th, 1919.  The trousers were also short

lived, as the Army returned to breeches matching the previous specification (1286), but now called

Spec. 415-3-1286 under the new numbering system. 

 

IF you don't have a pair of pants AND the ones being offered are wool trousers, not breeches, then I

suggest that you go back and make an offer on them. (up to $ 150.00).   This style of uniform only

existed for a short period of time making it scarce.

 

Your particular coat is clearly post war.  Some were made during the war; however, it is highly unlikely

any made it to the AEF before the war's end.   Some show up in photographs during the occupation

period with the 3rd Army. 

 

Msn

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RememberThe5thESB
a.jpg.7003e5fd32d13e8a5f2454ed96f0fbb1.jpg
 
In your attached photo (included above) I can see a pair of pants hanging inside the coat.
 
You also said, "There was another jacket, ... , and riders pants, that I did not purchase."  Is this the
second coat and pants, or did your coat also come with a pair of pants?
 
Anyway, your coat is what the collectors call the "Pershing" type without the exterior patch
pockets.   It is better described as the Coat, Specification 1356 Aug 28th, 1918 - Mar 25th, 1919.
 
The contract date on your coat puts it as post-war and right at the end of that particular specification.
There was a change of material (wool) composition and a subsequent specification 1356E was
issued for an identical appearing coat.  Both coats used 20 oz OD Melton wool, but 1356E called for
"Type C suiting".   This type coat did not last long in either form. 
 
As for the 'pants': For this uniform, woolen trousers (not breeches) would be appropriate.  The correct
designation being Specification 1372 Sep 24th, 1918 - Jun 25th, 1919.  The trousers were also short
lived, as the Army returned to breeches matching the previous specification (1286), but now called
Spec. 415-3-1286 under the new numbering system. 
 
IF you don't have a pair of pants AND the ones being offered are wool trousers, not breeches, then I
suggest that you go back and make an offer on them. (up to $ 150.00).   This style of uniform only
existed for a short period of time making it scarce.
 
Your particular coat is clearly post war.  Some were made during the war; however, it is highly unlikely
any made it to the AEF before the war's end.   Some show up in photographs during the occupation
period with the 3rd Army. 
 
Msn
The pants came with the uniform. I thought I showed them but guess I didn't. The pants appear to both be the same type of "breeches". I'll post both a picture I took of the uniform pieces I couldn't pick up, and the pants I got with this uniform. The pictures of the uniform I did not buy are fairly poor, but it's what I've got.

Also thanks for all the info, I appreciate it greatly!a010a97d0a915587131c5e45990ba615.jpgcec42cfce5809cd6fa459aa6d0376db8.jpg902636f4cffa4b98e3457bfbff635cef.jpgc95ddcb46d92424d69c3fecf356025b1.jpg

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Those are breeches.      One need only to look at a few period photos showing a number of soldiers in a group to

re-enforce the understanding that clothing was issued piecemeal.  Black-'n'-white photos show soldiers wearing

tops that differ in shade considerably from that of their breeches.  There is no reason to assume that these new

uniforms were issued with new trousers, as opposed to a the QM drawing a coat of size 'X' from one pile, and a

pair of pants of size 'Y' from another.   There's nothing wrong with displaying (wearing) a new type coat with a

previous pattern of breeches.   Your set will display just fine as is; you don't need to try to track down a set of

trousers to replace the breeches.

 

The only time clothing will match in color is when it is personally purchased from a tailor who produces articles of

military uniform cut from the same bolt of material bespoke to the individual.

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For some reason the other photo with the name and s/n is another file type I can not copy. I wanted to do a side by side of the hand writing.  Can someone else do the side by side?

f7714b8af5c827a6536da673f7639b88.jpg

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RememberThe5thESB
For some reason the other photo with the name and s/n is another file type I can not copy. I wanted to do a side by side of the hand writing.  Can someone else do the side by side?
f7714b8af5c827a6536da673f7639b88.jpg.61c6498b88eb1ab9c52ca2ad0a3c8c74.jpg
I'm not home right now but when I can get the uniform in hand again I'll try taking another picture and posting it again.

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2020-11-16_14-29-20.jpg.bb3720ebe58a7822405c9949e0ceb281.jpg
Awesome! I don't fully understand what all that means, what organization/unit does it say he served with? I can understand that Sig C is Signal Corps, but what does the rest mean?

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