Documented VC Flag from the Veteran

[Cpl. Punishment]

Today, I was able to keep a local veteran’s artifacts together, and in the local area. This veteran served in the 716th MP from 1970-1971, and was stationed on Tan Son Nhut Air Base. This flag was captured near Nui Ba Din in a cache of Viet Cong weapons and supplies by elements of whom the veteran believed was the 25th Infantry Division. 

The cache was brought back to the base, and upon inventorying it, the veteran took the flag and put it in his pocket. He brought it and a pair of Ho Chi Minh sandals, which he got from a woman who did laundry for the base, back to the US upon his return home in 1971. 

 

The flag itself is all hand stitched, and is certainly of homemade fashion. There is a date on the star of the flag which appears to be  19-11-69,

I have no idea what it means, and the veteran told me he didn’t realize it had a date until years after he returned home from overseas. The green construction is interesting, but it is nice to see a true Viet Cong flag.   

 

This is an incredible discovery which I am honored to keep in the local area!
 

[USCapturephotos]

Nice find! I interesting with that green fabric.

Paul

[vintageproductions]

The background is blue but just with bad dyes and that's why it has turned blue.

[manayunkman]

A wonderful flag!

 

 

[katieony]

A really interesting bring-back!

 

Mike

[otter42]

Is that the veteran holding the flag? I love photos of the vet with their items.

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

On 11/3/2020 at 6:45 PM, vintageproductions said:

The background is blue but just with bad dyes and that's why it has turned blue.

I disagree, I don't have it on hand but have seen a wartime picture of a US soldier with a captured pennant style flag that was green and red. Additionally while not strictly cloth flags I have seen a couple other cases of green being used in place of blue on VC flags. These I was able to turn up  

 

VIETNAM - MAY 15: Saigon in Vietnam on May 15, 1975 - Victory Day. (Photo by Herve GLOAGUEN/Gamma-Rapho via Getty Images)

 

I asked a knowledgeable Vietnamese friend and he suggested that green was used due to a lack of blue paint. The red and yellow were painted in North Vietnam, but when they entered Saigon they made an effort to appear as the uprising local VC rather that an invading foreign force. He suggested they may have had green paint on hand for repainting their tank camouflage. 

 

Cover of a booklet on the Dang Cong Nong (Peasants and Workers Party) of Vietnam issued during the Vietnam war. (Photo by: Universal History Archive/Universal Images Group via Getty Images)

 

This flag is strictly speaking not an VC (NLF or PLAF) flag, rather the flag of the Alliance of National Democratic and Peaceful Forces of Viet Nam (ANDPFVN). However this was a VC allied and controlled faction that was supposed to lead the popular uprising during the Tet Offensive. The center of this flag is actually supposed to be blue, not green. My friend suggested this mistake could have been made because both blue ( xanh duong ) and green ( xanh la cay ) can be shortened to "xanh". So perhaps in specifying a new flag they absent mindedly didn't elaborate. 

 

Jason Hardy says ST-66-24 (which try as I might I haven't got my hands on yet) lists a VC flag with green over red as a peace flag belonging to C-2 Company of the NVA.

 

There are also these two surviving flags  which are clearly green, not bad dye.

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/171525-captured-viet-cong-flags/

 

https://specialforceshistory.com/uniform/viet-cong-peace-flag/

 

Are these mistakes, are they a case of material shortage, or do they have some yet unknown meaning? Plenty of room for speculation.

 

 

Speaking of speculation, there is a ton of room for speculation on the date as well. Some North Vietnamese soldiers wrote their date of infiltration in RVN on their gear, although this is a VC flag, but there were many nominally VC units filled with NVA.  November 19th 1969 was also the date the decision was made to embalm Ho Chi Minh's body, but that hardly seems significant. My friend also says November 19th 1969 was the date the village of Son Giang in Khanh Hoa was founded. Another of his suggestions is soldiers would write the date of a battle they feared they might not survive, or that it was a battle a unit fought in, and he found around 30 NVA/VC soldiers listed as being killed on November 19th 1969 in Quang Tri province, so some battle seems to have taken place. 

 

 

A final possible lead he provided is the only unit on Nui Ba Din was the VC 7th Reconnaissance team of the A14 Task Force.

 

George

[Cpl. Punishment]

On 11/7/2020 at 3:48 AM, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

I disagree, I don't have it on hand but have seen a wartime picture of a US soldier with a captured pennant style flag that was green and red. Additionally while not strictly cloth flags I have seen a couple other cases of green being used in place of blue on VC flags. These I was able to turn up  

 

VIETNAM - MAY 15: Saigon in Vietnam on May 15, 1975 - Victory Day. (Photo by Herve GLOAGUEN/Gamma-Rapho via Getty Images)

 

I asked a knowledgeable Vietnamese friend and he suggested that green was used due to a lack of blue paint. The red and yellow were painted in North Vietnam, but when they entered Saigon they made an effort to appear as the uprising local VC rather that an invading foreign force. He suggested they may have had green paint on hand for repainting their tank camouflage. 

 

Cover of a booklet on the Dang Cong Nong (Peasants and Workers Party) of Vietnam issued during the Vietnam war. (Photo by: Universal History Archive/Universal Images Group via Getty Images)

 

This flag is strictly speaking not an VC (NLF or PLAF) flag, rather the flag of the Alliance of National Democratic and Peaceful Forces of Viet Nam (ANDPFVN). However this was a VC allied and controlled faction that was supposed to lead the popular uprising during the Tet Offensive. The center of this flag is actually supposed to be blue, not green. My friend suggested this mistake could have been made because both blue ( xanh duong ) and green ( xanh la cay ) can be shortened to "xanh". So perhaps in specifying a new flag they absent mindedly didn't elaborate. 

 

Jason Hardy says ST-66-24 (which try as I might I haven't got my hands on yet) lists a VC flag with green over red as a peace flag belonging to C-2 Company of the NVA.

 

There are also these two surviving flags  which are clearly green, not bad dye.

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/171525-captured-viet-cong-flags/

 

https://specialforceshistory.com/uniform/viet-cong-peace-flag/

 

Are these mistakes, are they a case of material shortage, or do they have some yet unknown meaning? Plenty of room for speculation.

 

 

Speaking of speculation, there is a ton of room for speculation on the date as well. Some North Vietnamese soldiers wrote their date of infiltration in RVN on their gear, although this is a VC flag, but there were many nominally VC units filled with NVA.  November 19th 1969 was also the date the decision was made to embalm Ho Chi Minh's body, but that hardly seems significant. My friend also says November 19th 1969 was the date the village of Son Giang in Khanh Hoa was founded. Another of his suggestions is soldiers would write the date of a battle they feared they might not survive, or that it was a battle a unit fought in, and he found around 30 NVA/VC soldiers listed as being killed on November 19th 1969 in Quang Tri province, so some battle seems to have taken place. 

 

 

A final possible lead he provided is the only unit on Nui Ba Din was the VC 7th Reconnaissance team of the A14 Task Force.

 

George

 

This is INCREDIBLY helpful!!! I generally never find original VC or NVA flags, way too many fakes out there. But this cane directly from the veteran. So I couldn’t say no! I love artifacts where I can talk to the veteran! 
 

I am going to relay some of this info to him!

 

if it helps, he did say this was for sure from a Viet Cong cache, and it wasn’t NVA. 
 

 

Also, yes this is a photo of the vet holding the flag. I cropped it for his privacy. 
 

this was all listed in ebay, and you’ll have to forgive me for being “that guy” but I was able to reach out and make a deal. I couldn’t stand to watch this be sold away from the local area, as the vet is local. I generally try to let everybody have their fair shake on bidding but this was one I couldn’t let slide away and be split up!

 

[Cpl. Punishment]

On 11/4/2020 at 8:22 AM, otter42 said:

Is that the veteran holding the flag? I love photos of the vet with their items.

It is indeed! I cropped it for his privacy to post it

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Photo by SP4 John Mikolaycik 3rd Platoon A 6/31 Inf 1969-1970

[VMI88]

The flag that Cap Camouflage Pattern displays above is in my collection - see this thread for the full discussion:

 

 

It's nice to finally have an answer to what it is!  I do note that my flag has a white star while the one that started this thread has a yellow star.

[USMC_ROB]

Fantastic items and information! 

[manayunkman]

Another flag directly from an armor officers estate.

[manayunkman]

On 11/7/2020 at 3:48 AM, Cap Camouflage Pattern I said:

I disagree, I don't have it on hand but have seen a wartime picture of a US soldier with a captured pennant style flag that was green and red. Additionally while not strictly cloth flags I have seen a couple other cases of green being used in place of blue on VC flags. These I was able to turn up  

 

VIETNAM - MAY 15: Saigon in Vietnam on May 15, 1975 - Victory Day. (Photo by Herve GLOAGUEN/Gamma-Rapho via Getty Images)

 

I asked a knowledgeable Vietnamese friend and he suggested that green was used due to a lack of blue paint. The red and yellow were painted in North Vietnam, but when they entered Saigon they made an effort to appear as the uprising local VC rather that an invading foreign force. He suggested they may have had green paint on hand for repainting their tank camouflage. 

 

Cover of a booklet on the Dang Cong Nong (Peasants and Workers Party) of Vietnam issued during the Vietnam war. (Photo by: Universal History Archive/Universal Images Group via Getty Images)

 

This flag is strictly speaking not an VC (NLF or PLAF) flag, rather the flag of the Alliance of National Democratic and Peaceful Forces of Viet Nam (ANDPFVN). However this was a VC allied and controlled faction that was supposed to lead the popular uprising during the Tet Offensive. The center of this flag is actually supposed to be blue, not green. My friend suggested this mistake could have been made because both blue ( xanh duong ) and green ( xanh la cay ) can be shortened to "xanh". So perhaps in specifying a new flag they absent mindedly didn't elaborate. 

 

Jason Hardy says ST-66-24 (which try as I might I haven't got my hands on yet) lists a VC flag with green over red as a peace flag belonging to C-2 Company of the NVA.

 

There are also these two surviving flags  which are clearly green, not bad dye.

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/171525-captured-viet-cong-flags/

 

https://specialforceshistory.com/uniform/viet-cong-peace-flag/

 

Are these mistakes, are they a case of material shortage, or do they have some yet unknown meaning? Plenty of room for speculation.

 

 

Speaking of speculation, there is a ton of room for speculation on the date as well. Some North Vietnamese soldiers wrote their date of infiltration in RVN on their gear, although this is a VC flag, but there were many nominally VC units filled with NVA.  November 19th 1969 was also the date the decision was made to embalm Ho Chi Minh's body, but that hardly seems significant. My friend also says November 19th 1969 was the date the village of Son Giang in Khanh Hoa was founded. Another of his suggestions is soldiers would write the date of a battle they feared they might not survive, or that it was a battle a unit fought in, and he found around 30 NVA/VC soldiers listed as being killed on November 19th 1969 in Quang Tri province, so some battle seems to have taken place. 

 

 

A final possible lead he provided is the only unit on Nui Ba Din was the VC 7th Reconnaissance team of the A14 Task Force.

 

George

Very interesting information about this green and red flag.

 

I just found one from a vet and recently started a thread about it.

[1st Sgt CES]

Great Stuff !!!!