Has anyone ever seen a helmet like this one ?

[The Rooster]

Hello. Heres a strange lid I picked up.

Has anyone ever seen one like it?

 

[huntssurplus]

Now that is weird. Is it an American manufactured M1? Might be a civilian thing done, that "liner" looks really well crafted. Definitely would take some skill to make something like that.

 

Hunt

[The Rooster]

I dont have it in hand but it appears to be a US rear seam swivel bail.

Maybe from the far east ? Korea, Vietnam ? Montagnard perhaps ?

Seller says its leather so Im taking their word for it but it appears to be rattan ?

Looks used a bit too.... Ive never seen such a liner suspension.

Its unique.Caught my eye.

[Burning Hazard]

Maybe recycled by Vietnam after the war? They were pretty good at re-using American items much like Europeans after WWII.

 

Here is an M1 liner converted to motorcycle helmet in Vietnam:

[The Rooster]

Maybe a Montagnard made it ???

[6th.MG.BN]

That's a great looking helmet. I like how they wrapped the bales to cut down on wear.

I think Montagnard is a good guess. If it were used by VC, I don't think you would see that much time spent on making the straps/ suspension.

Congrats.

Ken

[ArchangelDM]

That’s a cracking looking helmet Dave well done my friend

[The Rooster]

I got this note from the seller.

 

"Thank you for the clarification on the material used for the custom strap. I believe that you are correct in your assessment. Because the original owner was a Vietnam Veteran. And the bamboo or rattan is consistent with the material used during that time for this kind of customization."

[The Rooster]

Here is some info about the Montagnard people.

 

The Montagnards or Degar were the indigenous tribal people. who inhabited the central highlands near the Cambodian border. They are of Mon-Khmer origin. There history traces back to the ancient Champa Kingdom. They were once notable for their skills in domestication of elephants. Montagnard is a French term for "mountain Peoples". It was a political term during the French Revolution without any relevance to Vietnam. The Vietnamese use the term thurong for "highlanders", but this includes other ethnic groups as well. They were largely Christianized during the French colonial period. The Montagnards allied themselves with the Americans during the Vietnam War. This reflected in part because of their Christisn beliefs and thus opposition to Communism. Many Vietnamese did not like them, viewing them as uncivilized. They were recruited by the Americans. They paid a heavy price when the United States withdrew from Vietnam. Many Montagnards were killed during the War. Others were targeted by the victorious Communists after the War. The central highlands were once dominated by the Montagnards, but this is no longer the case becazuse of the descimation of the Montagnard people. The Communists arrested many Montagnards after the War, suffering imprisonment, torture and religious persecution. The Communist Government even carried out a program of forced sterilization. [Johnson] Some Montagnards have found refuge in the United States, many in North Carolina.

 

Image Caption.....

 

Figure 1.--This 1969 press photo was captioned, "Boys lightup: Militiamen at the ages of 12 and 14, these Montagnard boys light up cigarettes after returning from a predawn patrol around their outpost at Song Be, South Vietnam. A ptovincial capital, Song Be was being threatened last week by three Viet Cong battalions. In the first stage of the sprung offensive , the town was partly overun and the youngsters saw much action, as did their fathers who are serving at the same outposts. The post was being morarted daily."

 

 

 

 

[The Rooster]

Here is a Montagnard made Backpack.

[ArchangelDM]

56 minutes ago, The Rooster said:

I got this note from the seller.

 

"Thank you for the clarification on the material used for the custom strap. I believe that you are correct in your assessment. Because the original owner was a Vietnam Veteran. And the bamboo or rattan is consistent with the material used during that time for this kind of customization."

Now that’s some cool info Dave ! 

[ww2collector985]

That is a cool helmet and some great info.  Congrats!

[Costa]

Dave-- i would think Asian?? could be Nam era??? in any event its cool. 

[jmd62]

A very well done job of repurposing the helmet, that's for sure. Super cool!

[The Rooster]

I think the suspension is Rattan and not Bamboo.

And from what Ive been able to garner, the Montagnards are skilled craftsmen.

 

BAMBOO VS. RATTAN

Posted on April 5, 2016

in Materials

Yes, there is a difference. Many people use the terms bamboo and rattan interchangeably, but looks can be deceiving. Bamboo is a tree that grows in abundance throughout Asia. The tree is straight, hollow, and has distinctive horizontal notching. The diameter of bamboo varies greatly depending on the age of the tree. Its poles cannot be bent which limits they types of furniture designs it can be used for. In addition to using bamboo poles for furniture frames, the bamboo can be carefully crushed into a flat surface to make a textured furniture veneer (crushed bamboo) or crushed, sanded smooth and filled with resin to make a polished bamboo veneer. Slats or rings of bamboo can also be cut for use as a decorative furniture detail.

Rattan is a climbing palm vine with a solid core that wraps itself around other trees. Like bamboo, it has horizontal notching on its skin (skin-on rattan). When heat is applied to rattan vines, they can be straightened or bent into endless shapes while remaining strong. Skin-on rattan can be finished with a clear coat or the skin can be removed to allow for any finish stain to be applied. The inner core of the rattan vine cane be sliced into spaghetti-like strips to make wicker or flat linguine-like strips to make cane.
Both bamboo and rattan are highly sustainable materials based on their quick growth cycle and relative abundance. Their warm, rugged texture make for beautiful furniture that is at home in almost any setting.

[Ronnie]

I really don’t see anything strange about the lid. In fact I have seen thousands of them and have probably between 50 to a hundred of them in my garage.....not to mention what’s in my war room.

Ronnie

[The Rooster]

39 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I really don’t see anything strange about the lid. In fact I have seen thousands of them and have probably between 50 to a hundred of them in my garage.....not to mention what’s in my war room.

Ronnie

 

Ronnie, Thats awesome !!! 50-100 ???

With that many like this one, you can fill me in on the origin of the suspension ?

Do you know where yours came from ? I've never seen one before and am surprised you have that many.

So are they from Vietnam ? Cambodia ? Laos ? Phillipines ?

Do you know anything about what people might have made the suspension on yours ?

Thank you for the comment !

[The Rooster]

😂😁😉

[The Rooster]

I got the helmet in and tried it on.

It is made for a person with a small head.

Sits way up high on my melon and the chin strap comes to my lower lip.

I could never wear it.

The suspension is in very good solid strong shape. Its not brittle or fragile. Its still very sound for something thats prob 50 -

60 years old. But who ever wore it, whoever the suspension was made for had a small head.

 

[The Rooster]

Greetings all. Heres a few last pictures and comments on this helmet.

Whoever wore it, prob needed a cap or thick piece of fabric between their head

and the suspension. I could see it getting real uncomfortable real quick without

something between it and the scalp. You folks who have worn a helmet for long periods of time,

know how the webbing eventually digs in to your skin and even leaves an imprint after you take it off.

Imagine how uncomfortable this thing would be ??? But you have to give credit for skill and ingenuity.

Im sticking with it being a Montagnard modified M1, unless I hear some new info at some point.. Looks like a low dome too.

The bales are lashed in place. They dont swivel.

Who ever did it, was a skilled individual.

[huntssurplus]

I think you have a solid ID. Definitely looks South East Asian made. Maybe not worn during the Vietnam war necessarily, but probably relatively old.

Hunt

[The Rooster]

Thank you Hunt. The size of the liner being so small, all makes sense for a Montagnard soldier, even a kid

soldier like pictured above. I could not get the chinstrap past my lip.

I bet it would fit my Grandson.

Yea who knows if it was worn or not during the war ?

But for all the work that must have gone into it and the dirt / staining / sweat ? On the cords,

it may have been. >? ....... Im impressed with the ingenuity and the workmanship.

Where theres a will, theres a way !!!

[pararaftanr2]

The "chinstrap", which is the most robust bit of rattan work on the piece, looks very much like a more practical bucket, or basket, handle to me, not like something intended to hold a helmet on your head. More likely a surplus military item turned into something useful by a civilian with limited resources I would guess. Possibly one of these?

 

[Hookemhorns88]

24 minutes ago, pararaftanr2 said:

The "chinstrap", which is the most robust bit of rattan work on the piece, looks very much like a more practical bucket, or basket, handle to me, not like something intended to hold a helmet on your head. More likely a surplus military item turned into something useful by a civilian with limited resources I would guess. Possibly one of these?

 

If it were to be used as a basket then there would be no need to do the interior ring.  All that would need to be done is to affix the "handle" to the bales.  Still looks like a liner for a piece to be worn.

[pararaftanr2]

20 minutes ago, Hookemhorns88 said:

If it were to be used as a basket then there would be no need to do the interior ring.  All that would need to be done is to affix the "handle" to the bales.  Still looks like a liner for a piece to be worn.

And what military organization, or individual, would wear such a contraption? Would an American ally be able to get a steel helmet, but no liner and have to make his own suspension? Would an enemy of the US want to be seen in battle wearing an American helmet?