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Your early M1 Carbines


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35 minutes ago, Dirt Detective said:

Here is the marking on my 1-43 Inland .  Looks like it could be a partial duck foot. 

M1 duck foot.jpg

 

I've seen that one and the one with the Web inside it.

Thx for sharing it,

 

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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35 minutes ago, spagg said:

Never  seen that stamping before? I was hoping the thread would take off, it will be interesting to see who has what. Nice bunch of great looking M1 Carbines posted. I will post more pics of my Inland later on this evening.

Here are a few pics of my Inland. Barrel date 8-42

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IMG_2153.jpg

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147903, 2-43 barrel date. Everything is correct except for the NPM rear sight. There is nothing that indicates it hasn't been there since day one,  parts swapping between contractors was common, but I'm unaware of any documentation for NPM sights going to Inland this early. Anyone know of other Inlands with another makers' rear sight? 

Screenshot_20201101-194244_Photos.jpg

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2 hours ago, viking4zero said:

147903, 2-43 barrel date. Everything is correct except for the NPM rear sight. There is nothing that indicates it hasn't been there since day one,  parts swapping between contractors was common, but I'm unaware of any documentation for NPM sights going to Inland this early. Anyone know of other Inlands with another makers' rear sight? 

Your Dovetails and the leaf pin staking doesn't looked disturbed, I'd agree it's been there a long time.

1st thought would be if it had been damaged very early and this one was installed, making it a replacement. I know of a few cases where GI's had filed a notch in the flip, caught during arms inspections and were sent in for replacement. Noted by my Father while in the Philippines.

 

I can find no documented records of Inlands use of other makers Flip sights in their 1st or 2nd serial number blocks. This from looking at Carbine Club Newsletters and Ruth's War Baby.

In their 4,8 mil to 5549821 serial block usage of other makers Flip sight leaf, bases and complete assemblies is noted. I've seen NPM, UEF and I can't remember the other.

I have a Inland 5,0 mil with original Underwood Flip Sight. They are Mainly seen in the early 5,0 mil range.

 

On page 357 of War Baby in the 'Parts Integrated From NPM to Inland Section it shows on:

3-02-44 NPM sent 15,000 rear sight assemblies.

3-07-44 NPM sent 1000 rear sight leafs.

3-07-44 NPM sent 1000 rear sight leaf springs.

3-11-44 NPM sent 5000 rear sight assemblies.

3-18-44 NPM sent 5000 rear sight assemblies.

 

There may not be a record of it.

 

With that noted it could be possible that another Prime maker had requested and received rear sights from NPM. Then if this other Prime maker had a request from Inland for rear sights, the NPM sight (yours) could have been mixed in with that delivery. We often see parts transfers from one Prime maker to another Prime maker. We also see many parts transferred from one Sub to another Sub. Sometimes over stamped for the Prime maker that receives it, some times not over stamped. IE a Q-NL trigger housing for QHMC but transferred to RMC over stamped with the RMC over the Q-NL.

 

Look at it this way, The Prime makers were often getting parts from each other to keep rolling. So I send you 10,000 of these and you send 10,000 back when you get re-supplied. Some of those returned may have come from a few suppliers, but you got your 10,000 back.

 

HTH,

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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Dirt Detective
15 hours ago, viking4zero said:

147903, 2-43 barrel date. Everything is correct except for the NPM rear sight. There is nothing that indicates it hasn't been there since day one,  parts swapping between contractors was common, but I'm unaware of any documentation for NPM sights going to Inland this early. Anyone know of other Inlands with another makers' rear sight? 

Screenshot_20201101-194244_Photos.jpg

Hi Viking,  Maybe its just a shadow but is that a punch mark right in front of the rear sight? 

Screenshot_20201101-194244_Photos.jpg.af967a468c035eec7b789427ebdbccb6_LI (2).jpg

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I noticed that this morning also.

If possible pictures of the 4 dove tail corners would help.

 

If I get time today I'll see when NPM started Production.

 

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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Dirt Detective
24 minutes ago, viking4zero said:

It's a shadow, there's no pucmaks or cuts of any kind around the rear sight

 

Ok..thats what I thought it could be..just wanted to check.

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45 minutes ago, Dirt Detective said:

147903, 2-43 barrel date.

After the second pilot run of carbines was submitted to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for qualifications on 2-9-43 and was accepted with commendations.

The first regular production run of 1,000 Carbines was shipped from the NPM plant on 2-13-43.

War Baby page 172.

 

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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2 hours ago, painter777 said:

After the second pilot run of carbines was submitted to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for qualifications on 2-9-43 and was accepted with commendations.

The first regular production run of 1,000 Carbines was shipped from the NPM plant on 2-13-43.

War Baby page 172.

 

Charlie-P777

That's good info!

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17 hours ago, thorin6 said:

Here's my early Underwood, barrel date is 2-43. 

thorin,

I remember this one. The one you looked at in your LGS and went home to check the books, went back, bought it, then proceeded to shoot the Plunger across the room. Resulting in a few hour search for it.

 

In fact I found the old link from 2011 on Milsurps, which shows a few more pictures.

 

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=30391

 

Beautiful carbine, Thx for sharing it.

Do you recall when you picked up the C tip sling ? Later after owning it for a while you got around to un-snapping it.... To find it was a S.M.Co. 1943.

That sling is still in a Sticky Thread on Milsurps.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=32228&page=1

 

Cheers,

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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18 hours ago, thorin6 said:

my early Underwood, barrel date is 2-43

Thorin,

Your 1378071 is very much like this members 1399414 which is 21,343 past yours, but in a PU Type II Hi-wood.

DSC04712-1.jpg

DSC04723-1.jpg

 

Found another owned by Garandrew that's 1422508 also in a Type II Hi-wood M-U and 44437 past yours with 5-43 barrel.

 

latewra057-1.jpg

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Does yours have a Ordnance CC stamp? I assume not as these 2 slightly newer ones do not have the CC. Both have the Circled P proof on the bottom of the pistol grips.

Yours has to be very close to the ease over to the Oval cut oiler slot. The RMC, F and T in your sling well makes it a special find. I've seen examples like this with a RMC hand guard, Type I which would also be period correct.

All that said, you have one of the nicest early UEF's I've seen in nearly 30 years.

 

Again Thx for sharing it,

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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Saginaw S'G'.  Unmarked replacement stock and incorrect barrel band.  Everything else is correct and prime marked.

 

IMG_2334.jpg.c4de0572840c61eb44c96bf02fc678ae.jpgIMG_2330.jpg.c65478df89a1a61aa475555f488e44fc.jpg

IMG_2337.jpg

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27 minutes ago, opus5150 said:

Saginaw S'G'

That's from the IP serial number block, a split number block. When Saginaw took over operations at Grand Rapids.

Couple questions OK ?

Can you see what the barrel maker is? By Chance a BA barrel?

Was there any IP parts in it ?

 

You should consider doing the SG receiver assistance survey:

http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/forum/club-assistance-saginaw-receivers_topic4716.html?FID=8&PR=3#top

 

And here read this link about looking for consecutive serial number survey:

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/349406-grand-rapids-sg-and-ip-m1-carbine-registry/

 

I have S'G' 1,823,xxx with a mix of IP and S'G' parts. This is one of my favorite serial number / maker blocks.

I recently see a correct S'G' stock sell for over $1,100.00, think it was a Buy Now @ $1,150.00 IIRC. No telling what it could have sold for if they had a chance to bid.

Sold with in a hour of posting.

 

Thx for sharing it,

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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Barrel in an Underwood.  Mag release is a "B IP".  Everything else is S'G' marked with the exception of the bolt, which is a newer Saginaw marked unit.   I'm on the prowl for an original SG stock, but they do command crazy high prices when they come up.  

TenOC has my data from the .30 cal site you mentioned.  They were a big help in getting me more familiar with my carbine!

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7 minutes ago, opus5150 said:

TenOC has my data from the .30 cal site you mentioned.  They were a big help in getting me more familiar with my carbine!

Ole Ten keeps busy and has contributed a lot to fellow carbine junkies.

 

I got a picture here for you. The stock you need, just not quite finished yet!

 

Appreciate the reply,

Charlie-P777

 

DSC073632-1.jpg

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And here is the first delivery. 10 Carbines per crate....... Maybe your's ?

 

Caption to the right reads:

Despite the publicity generated when Grand Rapids mayor George Welsh (right) helped roll out its first two crates of carbines, the Irwin-Pedersen Arms Company was unable to meet its deadlines and lost its contract to General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division.
(GRPL Robinson Collection)

 

DSC07364-1.jpg

 

Crate says:

10 US Carbines Cal .30 M1
Saginaw Steering Gear Div.
XXXXXXXX?
Grand Rapids Plant

 

DSC07377-1.jpg

 

Charlie-P777

 

Living FREE because of those that served.

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31 minutes ago, spagg said:

How much for a crate?

I'd love to own a empty Carbine crate !

 

Here is Inland 3,531 with 5-42 Barrel. A all original Carbine, not a Restoration. Want you all to see the Oiler, A first for me.

ACtC-3fOzl7diAhWPBco4JQOwa1-fYsGRnV--fzB

ACtC-3eX620KfoJYXQSXkIaEm2hEBuwrV1fjJUOS

ACtC-3d4mT3NWSflcGqLX-2c48-Muf9nm6IGBzOU

ACtC-3dkE4ZEvzR4INbH_vcTwOG1BimCJnAc3Loi

 

Anyone see a Ducks Foot in the Sling Well ?

ACtC-3diUQdzGPSVllafykrAjzUA6rmCrAoGirig

ACtC-3cghGBpa_F5nkR4IYiOuUST0OEl3hUKMUcT

ACtC-3cV66RyVKVeiKWUVP5YjIRPhRHdfbugm2im

ACtC-3cseJI7gvkZ6UEy357G_-sRatjw4YENAVaO

 

Also wanted to show the tip on the Op Slide Guide Rod, All other parts are very 1st type used.

 

ACtC-3eF3-Tcc1CABPtL59c2UYKZIoqha3G_Al9v

 

 

Charlie-P777

Living FREE because of those that served.

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