82nd Airborne uniform question

[digi-shots]

Were most 82nd Airborne uniform coats - with ruptured duck - regular coat style or Ike jackets?

 

I’m planning on looking at an 82nd Airborne coat in the next few days and want to do my homework first. I saw a few photos but really want to see it in person.  From the photos it looked ok but there are some concerns.  

It is a regular coat style and not an Ike jacket.  It has both a French Croix de Guerre ribbon with palm and a fourregere.

It has 504 DUI’s on the lapels but a 511 oval (Pacific theater? But no PTO ribbon) - perhaps previous owner just added it? - it has a thick border.. post war?).  I plan to check for clutch backs on the pins and wings and black light the patches, etc.
 

From what I understand, it is not named but does have a laundry stamp. 
 

Thanks!

[Allan H.]

The best advice that I can give you is to say "thanks for letting me look at it." Then turn around and walk away.

 

Allan

[huntssurplus]

What is the time overseas for this jacket? And are there any service hash marks for 3 years of service? To answer your question, they would have worn both, but keep in mind the Ike Jacket was first given to ETO troops, and in many cases Airborne troops got first priority for the new uniforms (look at the issuance of the M43 to them in the fall of 1944). 

 

This coat has Master Sergeant stripes, which was usually reserved for career enlisted soldiers with many years in service. Master Sergeants didn't really have a place in an Infantry Company, so if the collar discs are Infantry that may be a problem. Also if there are no hashmarks (while he may have just never put them on, although I would doubt he would have left it off since the uniform is covered in so much other insignia) that means that he would have had to make it to master sergeant, the top enlisted rank, in 3 years or less. That isn't unheard of, especially if he had a technical skill, but I feel like it would be more likely he would be a First Sergeant if there are infantry collar discs. 

That's just something else I noticed, not a fan of this one.

[digi-shots]

Thanks Allan and Hunts!
 

When I first saw the pics I thought oh, nice... 82nd patch, jumps wings.. lots of good stuff - too good to be true.  Then the red flags started to creep up.  So easy to fake, starting with basic coat jacket.  From what I understand the jacket is NOT from the original owner but from a militaria collector - and no idea where he got it.

 

I saw a close up pic of the infantry disc and shows a square hole in center - early insignia?  Also the first full length photo shows what looks like an overseas stripe but can’t see how many stripes.
 

Interesting that it has dui’s, Croix de Guerre ribbon, but no arrowhead on the eame ribbon. The jump wing oval looks post war to me and it’s the wrong AB Division. No PUC.

 

I’m still planning on looking at it - it will give me some good practice.  Maybe the sum of the parts might be worth it... if they are period items and not post war.  I’ll flip the DUI’s, wings and the CBI over just out of curiosity (pinback vs. clutch, long pins vs. short pins).
 

Allan, other than my concerns that I posted above,  can you add anything?  As I said, this is a good learning experience.
 

Thanks again.

 

 

[jim46]

This has a ruptured duck, but no victory ribbon.

 

[steeve555]

9 hours ago, huntssurplus said:

What is the time overseas for this jacket? And are there any service hash marks for 3 years of service? To answer your question, they would have worn both, but keep in mind the Ike Jacket was first given to ETO troops, and in many cases Airborne troops got first priority for the new uniforms (look at the issuance of the M43 to them in the fall of 1944). 

 

This coat has Master Sergeant stripes, which was usually reserved for career enlisted soldiers with many years in service. Master Sergeants didn't really have a place in an Infantry Company, so if the collar discs are Infantry that may be a problem. Also if there are no hashmarks (while he may have just never put them on, although I would doubt he would have left it off since the uniform is covered in so much other insignia) that means that he would have had to make it to master sergeant, the top enlisted rank, in 3 years or less. That isn't unheard of, especially if he had a technical skill, but I feel like it would be more likely he would be a First Sergeant if there are infantry collar discs. 

That's just something else I noticed, not a fan of this one.

I belief MSG are Brigade operations Sergeant

[patches]

For the record in Infantry Regiments, Master Sergeants were found at Regimental Headquarters Companies and in the Service Companies, in Parachute Airborne Regiments too. Their jobs in the HQ Co were that of the Regimental Sergeant Major (Rank or Grade of Sergeant Major not officially reestablished till 1958), in the SV Co, probably of a more administrative role rather then a leadership one. If M/Sgts were found at company level they were generally Acting 1st Sergeants, here they usually were made 1st Sergeants and changed stripes.

 

So far (As there may of been more then that made it into this particular online roster).

 

The M/Sgt in the Headquarter Company 504th PIR.

 

Furst Henry H. M/Sgt 13048622

 

 

The M/Sgts at one time or another in the Service Company 504th PIR.

 

Furiga Steve J. M/Sgt (No Serial Number lised)

 

Varelli Francis P. M/Sgt 13054517

[BILL THE PATCH]

The 82nd patch has a lot of khaki thread around edge a sign of a repo, or a post war version.

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[MattS]

Probably a put-together so it depends on the price, or as others said the value of the "sum of the parts". For $50 I'd pick it up, for $200 I'd walk away. 

[digi-shots]

Thanks for all the comments and advice.  I did get a chance to look at it and decided to pass. The 82nd patch was not WWII vintage and the wings and d.u.i.’s were clutch-back, the oval trimming was post war for the 11th Division..  I don’t consider it a waste of time but more of a learning experience.