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I’ve wanted a clean ww1 helmet for a long time. This one popped up on Baystate and I had a question. Do you think these spots could be cleaned up or is there something else going on here that the spots are permanent (would do damage to try and clean)?

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Wanted: Missouri Medals

 

I am always in search of Missouri Medals and Items. This could be anything from WW1, WW2, Prisoners of War, Ephemera, or anything pertaining to Missourians.

 

I thank you for your time and consideration.

 

-Without a witness, they just disappear.-

 

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Matt, not being a helmet guy that’s what I was trying to figure out. If it was dirt or something more permanent. Thanks all for the advice.

Wanted: Missouri Medals

 

I am always in search of Missouri Medals and Items. This could be anything from WW1, WW2, Prisoners of War, Ephemera, or anything pertaining to Missourians.

 

I thank you for your time and consideration.

 

-Without a witness, they just disappear.-

 

donation2020.gif

 

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Even if it was bird droppings, if the bird droppings were part of its ww1 history there's no way I'd clean them off, just adds to the history and therefore the value of the piece IMO. 

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"The battle belonged that morning to the thin wet line of khaki that dragged itself ashore on the channel coast of France." - General Omar Bradley.

 

 

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4 hours ago, ken88 said:

Even if it was bird droppings, if the bird droppings were part of its ww1 history there's no way I'd clean them off, just adds to the history and therefore the value of the piece IMO. 

 

I'm thinking more like if you took your helmet outside yesterday to take some photos and a bird pooped on it, clean it off.

Not sure that modern animal excrement adds to the value...

 

In the end, it's your helmet, just don't do any damage if you can help it. 

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LOL. For sale..................... "...guaranteed period bird droppings included."

 

On the forum: "What do you guys think of the bird droppings on this recent pick up? Does it look like JK's work?"

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The subject of 100 year old bird poop may seem funny and quite frankly, I think it is, but it’s very valid. Look at the space shuttle Discovery as a “recent” example. Discovery performed the last mission of NASA’s shuttle program. Discovery was already destined for Smithsonian’s location at the Udvar-Hazy Center before the completion of the flight. NASA’s normal post-flight procedures called for the cleaning of the shuttle and restoration to flight status. NASA was about to start this process when Smithsonian personnel heard about it. They immediately called NASA and told them to leave it alone. They wanted to preserve Discovery in the condition in which it returned to earth upon completing the last mission. So, she is displayed “as is” today for all to see. You can also see this in classic car collecting today. Cars found in original or even “barn find” condition are commanding values greater than those that are restored in many cases. Sometimes, the best course of action is stabilization and preservation. Do no harm. It’s only original once. 

R. Patterson

Boatswains Mate

USCG 1998-2010

“The Boatswain’s Mate and Coxswain is A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND A MASTER OF THEM ALL.”- 1944 edition of the BM2c training course material. 
“They gave us an engine that first went up and down. With some more technology, the engine went around. We know of steam and diesel, but what’s a main yard for? A sailor ain’t a sailor, ain’t a sailor anymore!”- The Last Shanty

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IMO unless you know the bird droppings were dropped when it was in your, or another collectors possession, I would leave it as is. It looks better like that too. Why not just wait for an actually clean helmet if you want one?

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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TCB,

Like the Apollo 13 capsule? It's near us in Hutchinson, Kansas and it's completely shiny and ruined. I asked who would restore such a thing and remove the battle damage so much a part of the story and was told it had been so poorly stored there was really no longer a choice.

I'll add to read about Silver Hill and how the Smithsonian crowd, admittedly against all odds, let many historic items rot in situ. 

Dave

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The area around the chinstrap rivet was likely retouched at the Ford factory during final assembly.  It's hard to tell from the photos whether the top rivet was retouched at the same time, but it was common practice to add paint to those areas of the helmet before they were packed for issue.

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2 hours ago, dmar836 said:

TCB,

Like the Apollo 13 capsule? It's near us in Hutchinson, Kansas and it's completely shiny and ruined. I asked who would restore such a thing and remove the battle damage so much a part of the story and was told it had been so poorly stored there was really no longer a choice.

I'll add to read about Silver Hill and how the Smithsonian crowd, admittedly against all odds, let many historic items rot in situ. 

Dave


Right. The preservation community as a whole has come to realize (slowly in some cases) that simply possessing/“saving”  an artifact doesn’t complete your obligation. Stabilization and sometimes, restoration, are necessary aspects of preservation as well as ongoing maintenance. Damage as a result of improper storage and/or display is a very real issue. Actions must be taken to correct or prevent further damage and/or deterioration as a result. Some museums just didn’t know any better as preservation science and standards may not have existed as they do today. The Smithsonian’s preservation of Armstrong’s Apollo 11 EVA (space walk) suit and their entire historic space suit collection is no exception. Their preservation/conservation program(s) is/are constantly evolving. 

R. Patterson

Boatswains Mate

USCG 1998-2010

“The Boatswain’s Mate and Coxswain is A JACK OF ALL TRADES AND A MASTER OF THEM ALL.”- 1944 edition of the BM2c training course material. 
“They gave us an engine that first went up and down. With some more technology, the engine went around. We know of steam and diesel, but what’s a main yard for? A sailor ain’t a sailor, ain’t a sailor anymore!”- The Last Shanty

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On 10/16/2020 at 10:30 PM, TheCrustyBosun said:


Right. The preservation community as a whole has come to realize (slowly in some cases) that simply possessing/“saving”  an artifact doesn’t complete your obligation. Stabilization and sometimes, restoration, are necessary aspects of preservation as well as ongoing maintenance. Damage as a result of improper storage and/or display is a very real issue. Actions must be taken to correct or prevent further damage and/or deterioration as a result. Some museums just didn’t know any better as preservation science and standards may not have existed as they do today. The Smithsonian’s preservation of Armstrong’s Apollo 11 EVA (space walk) suit and their entire historic space suit collection is no exception. Their preservation/conservation program(s) is/are constantly evolving. 

 

Very late reply, but this. I've been thinking about this stuff a lot lately and feel that there is a big difference between "collectors" and those that surpass the title of collector and really disserve a new term between collector and full blown historian. I think we who hold these artifacts, even if we paid our own hard earned cash for them, have a responsibility to preserve them and thus handle and store them appropriately. Our collections might not be as significant as the Apollo 13 capsule, but its still history, and in 200, 300 years, might be some of the last surviving items from that era because we took the steps to preserve them. 

 

I've really made sure over time to work on storing and preserving things right. I use natural bug deterrents to help prevent against bugs. I try to store most things in protective containers in temperature controlled areas. I know even wear the white cloth gloves when handling objects to help ensure they are being treated properly. To some this may sound absurd, but I want my great-great-great grandchildren to be able to experience the history of these objects the same way I'm able to, and treating them like crap sure as hell isn't going to help with that! 

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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Very well said Hunt. We are only stewards of these items and one way or the other, they will be "owned" by someone else eventually so why not try our best to preserve them :)

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I would have to agree with everything said here keeping in mind a few things... In my opinion.....

a helmet without a name or a unit id etc etc, although a piece of history in its own right, is still just a helmet.

Its the peoples names and unit id's rank etc etc on them that give helmets special meanings.

I used to think WW2 produced helmets were rare. Well... you can take your pic of WW2 shells at somewhat reasonable costs

all day long on ebay if you know what to look for. But just go and try a fairly cheap modern ACH.... That will cost you. I cant find any cheap ACH helmets that I would want to collect. Go figure.

I guess it depends on what your interests are. As far as cleaning helmets../.

 

I Learned the hard way...

 

Even with the kind learned advice here on the forum my stubborn self picked up a Nam era Airborne helmet with traces of a cover rusted and rotted to it.

I was advised to leave it, I should have listened... I unfortunately did not and cleaned it...... And....... a few days later.... the seller who sold me the helmet, put the matching liner up for sale.

The seller had split them up (God knows why?) I did get the liner but the lesson learned was I should have just left it alone to begin with.

 

I'd leave the bird crap on it.

 

 

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