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"M2 d-bail"


elh1311
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20 hours ago, Burning Hazard said:

 

Are they on USMF? Would be good to see some additional pictures. It does seem odd to not include those photos for such a big item...

 

Pat

 

Updated with pics of the bails

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The seller told me that liner stamp was too difficult to read so they wouldn't be able to provide pics. Okay, maybe that flies. 

However, he did provide pictures of the bails. So now....things get interesting. 

I think the legs of the bails have been snipped from repro bails. Now, correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm only going off pics and not actual first hand experience) but the feet on a legit M2 are more rounded on corners on often have an indent of sorts, not to mentions they tend to be of thicker material in the feet. 

What do the experts think? 

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Persian Gulf Command

Now we need to know if the male snaps are nickel plated.  Personally the bails look good, notice the paint on the "feet" that match the inside of the shell and the rust.  I also like the "dimple" in the rim.

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35 minutes ago, Persian Gulf Command said:

Now we need to know if the male snaps are nickel plated.  Personally the bails look good, notice the paint on the "feet" that match the inside of the shell and the rust.  I also like the "dimple" in the rim.

Best I could do. Admittedly, not the best. 

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Persian Gulf Command

Now I'm not so sure.  The snaps do not look right.  Also, with the rust on the bails it should have stained the inside of the straps.

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Burning Hazard

Interesting. The D-bails look correct but as Persian Gulf said, there is no staining on the inside from the rust.

 

The OD3 chinstrap brass hook and buckle are original too. My guess is that they may have been added later or were build using original parts; I still remember a couple of rolls of original OD3 chinstrap webbing going around in the early-mid 2000's. It would also be good to see the snaps as they should NOT be blackened brass.

 

I also noticed some of the stitching on the inside appears to be off? hard to tell.

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I'm by no means an expert, however I've owned about a half a dozen authentic M2s and this one is not one I would pursue. The loop feet are close, but not quite right. The feet on original M2s are barrel-shaped. They begin narrow, widen, and then narrow again. This example is narrow up top where the loop connects to the feet and widens downward and never tapers back in. I've shown it alongside an original below. I agree that the loops are reproductions that were snipped and modified to more closely resemble the shape of originals. As for the liner, I see no issues based on the photos provided. Its A-yokes look authentic, it has the common, light-green textured factory finish and darker smooth green rivet heads on the para snaps and washers that secure the yokes (remember Inland didn't make the para liners, they sent infantry liners to McCord and McCord converted them). I do not agree with the idea that the liner could be a Westinghouse (the duck cloth pattern of the liner would be quite different). It's possible that it could be a highly modified Firestone, but from the photos, I tend to believe the liner is an original Inland and it was paired with a high quality fake M2.

 

M2 Comparison.jpg

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3 hours ago, Grant G. said:

I'm by no means an expert, however I've owned about a half a dozen authentic M2s and this one is not one I would pursue. The loop feet are close, but not quite right. The feet on original M2s are barrel-shaped. They begin narrow, widen, and then narrow again. This example is narrow up top where the loop connects to the feet and widens downward and never tapers back in. I've shown it alongside an original below. I agree that the loops are reproductions that were snipped and modified to more closely resemble the shape of originals. As for the liner, I see no issues based on the photos provided. Its A-yokes look authentic, it has the common, light-green textured factory finish and darker smooth green rivet heads on the para snaps and washers that secure the yokes (remember Inland didn't make the para liners, they sent infantry liners to McCord and McCord converted them). I do not agree with the idea that the liner could be a Westinghouse (the duck cloth pattern of the liner would be quite different). It's possible that it could be a highly modified Firestone, but from the photos, I tend to believe the liner is an original Inland and it was paired with a high quality fake M2.

 

M2 Comparison.jpg

Great photos. I cannot seem to get pics of the liner stamp from the seller but I'm willing to believe that it's an original Inland. I have been provided with other pics. 

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14 hours ago, Burning Hazard said:

Interesting. The D-bails look correct but as Persian Gulf said, there is no staining on the inside from the rust.

 

The OD3 chinstrap brass hook and buckle are original too. My guess is that they may have been added later or were build using original parts; I still remember a couple of rolls of original OD3 chinstrap webbing going around in the early-mid 2000's. It would also be good to see the snaps as they should NOT be blackened brass.

 

I also noticed some of the stitching on the inside appears to be off? hard to tell.

1.JPG

Better pics were supplied by the seller. 

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Burning Hazard

Nice comparison Grant, I was doubting myself the entire time.

 

I agree with what Tom Kibler said earlier. This helmet is one of those “artefakes” that were floating around in the 2000’s. These were museum copies, down to original WWII parts being used.

I still remember the rolls of original chinstrap webbing and even NOS WWII United Carr snaps being sold on the market. 
 

Pat

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I have owned a D-Bail and inspected another in person that my friend currently has in his collection.

To me the feet on the bails look too big/wide.

The feet on a real D Bail are smaller.

Cant say about the liner.

Also the tac marks look faked to me.

Just my 2 cents.

I dont profess to be an expert.

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On 10/18/2020 at 7:06 PM, Tom Kibler said:

From the photos on the site, I would not want to own it.  Certainly looks too much like the flood of fakes that ravaged the US in the 90's & early 2000's.  As stated, a high caliber helmet (if this were real) would only take a phone call to sell.  If listed on a site, HIGH QUALITY PHOTOS of all the right spots would be included, with no guess work needed.  IMHO, this is junk made to deceive and rolled away on an auction site.

Tom, you must remember who I'm referring to above - you're old enough, just like me ;)

 

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The other thing that everyone has missed is that the shell chinstraps are only 10-row webbing, not the expected 11-row on an M2. Now, there were 10-row straps used on M1C shells, in both OD7 (mainly) and OD3 (rarely), but that's strictly 1945-era stuff.

 

The webbing here is more than likely made from the waist straps of Lightweight Gasmask Bags, which is the perfect width, but also only 10-rows in the weave.

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