Plastic coated ribbons and more... questions

[digi-shots]

These questions might sound simple but I have no clue to the answers. I’ve searched and can’t really come up with any answers or make any conclusions.

Other than the plastic coated 1/2” USMC/Navy ribbons... were plastic coated ribbons awarded in a specific theater or was it a random thing?  Could a soldier choose?  
 

I know Medal “sets” came with a loose ribbon fabric and a slide on ribbon bar.  How were the pin on ones distributed or ordered.  Did they order a pin and just slide on their ribbon from the cased Medal set... makes sense if you already had a 2 ribbon bar and wanted to add a 3rd to the 3 place pin back piece.
 

Zinc pinBacks vs. brass...  early vs. late? Zinc for Navy?
 

There appears to be a few different plastic types... were these theater specific or early vs later WWII?

 

- hard plastic Wolf Brown 

- slick plastic coated fabric ribbon (You can peel the plastic off)

- matte finish plastic ribbon that looks like the ribbon is imbedded in the ribbed plastic
 

I seem to see more plastic ribbons on  AAF CBI and Navy uniforms.  Fabric on Army.

 

Thanks for your comments!

[Steve Brannan]

The ribbon on ribbon bars were usually bought by the individual on the exchange store or at a store in town. Also medals were issued with a single ribbon and often with a few inches of the ribbon fabric which could be sewn on a bar. All different types were available and it depended on the taste of the buyer. The Army/Army Air Force ribbons were 3/8” tall and Navy/Marines were 1/2”. Sometimes you’ll find Army Air Force guys wearing 1/2” especially those stationed in England.


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[digi-shots]

Steve, thanks for the reply.  It helps straighten out some questions I had.

 

I’ll have to keep my eye out for the 1/2” AAF bars from England... don’t think I’ve seen any, unless I thought they were USMC/Navy bars.  I have a couple with “English” type clasps but I believe they are true USMC/Navy ribbons.

[Steve Brannan]

I was in the Navy 1968-72 and ribbons costed about 10 or 15 cents each and the bars were 25-50 cents depending on if you needed 1,2 or 3 rows. They were really cheap in the ships store.


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[Allan H.]

In the interest of making sure that all of the questions are properly answered, I have taken the liberty of a cut and paste. My answers are in bold.

Other than the plastic coated 1/2” USMC/Navy ribbons... were plastic coated ribbons awarded in a specific theater or was it a random thing?  Could a soldier choose?  
Plastic ribbons are normally associated with those manufactured by Wolf- Brown. They held a patent for the process. These ribbons were not issued. ZThey were purchased at the PX or at clothing stores that carried military uniforms and insignia.

 

I know Medal “sets” came with a loose ribbon fabric and a slide on ribbon bar.  How were the pin on ones distributed or ordered.  Did they order a pin and just slide on their ribbon from the cased Medal set... makes sense if you already had a 2 ribbon bar and wanted to add a 3rd to the 3 place pin back piece.
WWII Medal sets came with a pin back ribbon and usually one or two pieces of loose ribbon approximately an inch to an inch and a half long. The loose ribbon was supplied so that the soldier could make his own ribbon bar. The pin backs on the individual ribbons are kind of difficult to remove and to put them on a bar and not ruin the ribbon is more of an art than a simple slide on process. Loose ribbons could be purchased as above.

 

Zinc pin Backs vs. brass...  early vs. late? Zinc for Navy?
During the war, bras was considered a strategic material, and zinc plated steel was substituted. Because the frames around which the ribbon was added was thicker than the brass, these ribbons are slightly larger than their brass framed counterparts.

 

There appears to be a few different plastic types... were these theater specific or early vs later WWII?

Plastic Ribbons were prohibited by regulation around 1948, and there were to be no coatings or coverings applied to the ribbons.

- hard plastic Wolf Brown  Yes

- slick plastic coated fabric ribbon (You can peel the plastic off) This is actually cellophane. You will find at least two different types of cellophane used- one turns yellow over time and the other has stayed clear. The yellow variety is a much thinner material and it will crack due to large temperature swings.

- matte finish plastic ribbon that looks like the ribbon is imbedded in the ribbed plastic I believe you are talking about ribbons that have been impregnated with a wax to coat them. Back in the day, the wax made the ribbons really shiny. Over the past 75+ years, the wax has yellowed and the color has muted quite a bit. The wax also captures dirty and grime easily causing the ribbons to look dirty or discolored.
 

I seem to see more plastic ribbons on  AAF CBI and Navy uniforms.  Fabric on Army. This was totally up to the purchaser, but Wolf Brown made a lot of 1/2" ribbons. You commonly see them or Viking Kwikset 1/2" wide ribbons. 

 

Hope this helps.

Allan

[digi-shots]

Thanks Allan... all great info and details.

 

Here are a couple of pics of the wax looking ribbons.. both widths.  It is a coating but not cellophane that will rip off.

 

 

[Captainofthe7th]

I think you have most of your answers especially from Allan.  I have posted some details in a short article I put up (though this focuses on post war ribbons) but I included reference from PAM20-158 for the 'banning' of the plastic coating that occurred in the early 50s.  I don't know why it was frowned upon as it does make the ribbons look nice and fresh for longer.

 

You can spend your entire collecting life examining the varieties of ribbons.  I intended for this article to be a two (or more) part series with the second part getting very granular about the details of these with different manufacturers and patents that will hopefully answer many questions like yours.

 

https://www.rcmcollection.com/featured-ribbons

 

I'll add to the noted plastic coated varieties(wolf brown and the cellophane types) that there are also harder plastic wrapped ribbons that I assume is heat formed around the bar.  You find this shaped around the singles for a slide on or sometimes a full length of plastic that covers all ribbons on a row.  While wolf brown is probably the most recognizable and favored plastic ribbon, I would argue that it is not used as frequently as collectors wish they were.

 

Thanks,

Robert

[digi-shots]

Thanks Cap’n...

 

The additional photos I posted look like what you described as heat formed... the fabric is coated with some type of plastic that makes it water resistant  and you can still feel a texture to it.

 

Another reason in trying to learn about ribbons is to spot “humped up” uniforms... i.e. new ribbons on older uniforms.  I don’t think I’ve seen a uniform with a mix of ribbons (plastic wolf and wide fabrics) but I have seen old ribbons mounted on newer plastic or metal ribbon racks.  I can understand people replacing a ribbon or so if it is damaged etc.  Personally, I like them as found, salty or not.  I do think if you’re going to restore a ribbon rack or uniform that you use the appropriate time frame ribbon or insignia.

 

 

 

 

[Captainofthe7th]

6 hours ago, digi-shots said:

Thanks Cap’n...

 

The additional photos I posted look like what you described as heat formed... the fabric is coated with some type of plastic that makes it water resistant  and you can still feel a texture to it.

 

The ones you posted are what Allan described as waxy - I don't know if they're wax impregnated or coated in a lacquer, we can fight about it as I haven't found a patent for it yet, but the point is they're regular fabric with some kind of impregnation.  The heat formed type I describe is like a middle ground between wolf brown and cellophane.  It's constructed using a standard ribbon with a sheet of thicker plastic formed around it.  The cellophane is easy to wrap (I have even heard of soldiers using like, cigarette pack cellophane) but the wolf brown is a manufactured process of the ribbon encased in sheets of plastic.  This 'thicker' plastic wrap is a middle ground to add that protected look to an already existing ribbon.  Actually here's an example I just sold.  These are pretty fancy and made by Studley.  The plastic wrap is thin and edges on cellophane, but if it were to be removed it would be sturdy enough to hold its shape.

 

 

[johnnyrocket]

Thanks for the posting, it has been very helpful.