Misfit 45 Posted September 20, 2020 Share #1 Posted September 20, 2020 Hi Folks, I did not want to distract from Bobcat87 and Casca174's fine conversation about the OKC 3S prototypes, so I thought it better to simply start a new thread. Casca174 mentioned the OKC M10. The M10 designation is on the packaging I bought in 2009. At the time, no one knew why or what the "M10" meant. Now I'm hearing things like "mass reduced scabbards" being issued. I have never opened the package, because I thought it was a regular OKC 3S bayonet. Gary Cunningham indicated that the commercial sale bayonets and the military contracts were labeled exactly the same. Can someone shed any light on what the M10 means? Or, is it possible that something other than a regular issue OKC 3S bayonet is in this packaging? Thanks for your help. Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sactroop Posted September 20, 2020 Share #2 Posted September 20, 2020 I've got to dig mine out of storage, and compare the labeling to yours. Mine also have the M10 on the label as I recall, but it's been awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawkALSE Posted September 20, 2020 Share #3 Posted September 20, 2020 The M-10 I believe is the method of packing. Attached a photo from a DoD packaging guide. M-10 seems to be a common method, Ive seen it on numerous pieces. Id say you just have a brand new in Govt wrapping USMC bayonet. OKC did make an improved bayonet that was supposed to be for the Army that had the Army seal on the handle. They were light tan colored bayonets/scabbards that were called a M-10 I believe. Only saw them for sale for a short time a while back, never got a chance to snag one. Also never saw any evidence of the Army using them but then shortly after saw a flood of those Tri Tech mfg late Gen M9 bayonets for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misfit 45 Posted September 20, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted September 20, 2020 mohawkALSE, Thanks for the clarification. Good information. As you explained, the last line of my label would be classified as "MILITARY METHOD & DATE OF UNIT PRESERVATION". Thanks Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casca174 Posted September 21, 2020 Share #5 Posted September 21, 2020 Marv ... Yup, I'm positive you have an OKC 3S in your possession. The M10 marking is just coincidental and part of the package labeling. To make for more confusion ... Ontario also made the OKC 10 (no letter "M" in the designation) which is a tanto style bayonet WITH a hole in the blade to mate with the scabbard cutter plate (The website M9M4 mistakenly labels this as an OKC 1FST when it's the OKC 10). This was originally made in black, green, and tan, and have several variations with serrations no saw, saw with no serrations, serrations and saw. The OKC 10 has reduced mass style scabbard, which is basically a more streamlined M9 style scabbard without any slots slots like the legacy M9 four and two hold scabbards and the scabbard has a suspension system with MOLLE strapping. Ontario also made the OKC 1FST which is very similar to the OKC 10 but this time it does NOT have the the hole in the blade, it has serrations, and it shares the exact same scabbard as the OKC 3S. It's my belief that a lot of these "COMBAT" marked blades were early profile blades made that resulted out of the USMC trials and were never adopted by the USMC or the Army. You'll see some Army symbology on these bayonets which I think the intent was to get the Army to buy-in on one of these designs. You'll see some people advertise OKC M10s, OKC 1FSTs, OKC 10's as 'prototypes' but I'm not sure they probaby don't qualify as a prototypes but more of a hard to find limited release bayonet. I think Ontairio probably had some remainder blades and tooling, parts, etc, and released their stock to the commercial market since they were committed to making the OKC 3S for the Marine Corps and the old sty;e M9 for the Army. I also understand since Ontario had the COMBAT stamping from the earlier blades, they tried to carry over the "COMBAT' marking to some of their commercial M9 bayonets but ceased the practice quickly once the commercial M9s were making their way into the military system. So a cool commercial-military'ish Ontario M9 to get from Ontario is a "COMBAT" marked green M9; they're getting harder to find and might be a neat addition for a military knife collector. I have a OKC 1FTS and an OKC 10 ... I'll try to dig them out of storage and post pics. I don't have an OKC M10 but I'll try to screenshoot a pic so you know the differences. Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casca174 Posted September 21, 2020 Share #6 Posted September 21, 2020 Marv, Probably more info than you want but here's some FYI to distinguish between some of the Ontario Knife Company nomenclature. Attached are OKC M10 pre-production prototype pics. The M10 had Army markings instead of USMC markings because I believe Ontario was trying get the Army to Adopt the improved platform; it was released for limited public sale when the army didn't adopt it; the Army stuck with the old style M9 platform already in production. The OKC M10 was basically an improved evolution of the M9 bayonet; most notable was the improved grip and slim scabbard to reduce the weight. Those USMC M9 prototype trials bayonets I posted on the OKC 3S page are the predecessors that evolved into the M10. The most predominate differences were grip symbology (Army instead of USMC, color (tan instead of brown), and saw (saw versus no saw). It is my understanding that Ontario tried to get the Army to move away from the M9 platform and adopt the OKC 3S at some point also, but the Army didn't bite again ... there are Army marked OKC 3S' out in the populace. I've never seen one in person but I have found a few pics in searches online. Since there is a lot of confusion with these bayonets, I also pulled out my OKC 10's and OKC 1FST for some comparison. To make the "M10' confusion stir a little more ... I believe Ontario also makes an M10 scabbard for the M7 bayonet. Ever time I try to search for an M10 bayonet I get M10 scabbards ... haha. Needless to say, you can be rest assured you have an USMC OKC 3S bayonet. Drew scabbards in my searches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohawkALSE Posted September 21, 2020 Share #7 Posted September 21, 2020 Those OKC M10's were around for a minute I recall, and I never jumped on one. Now they seemed to have dried up. I recall them having the Army marking and Eagle, yet never saw evidence anyone actually used them so thats what sort of had me hold off. I did like it had the MOLLE adapter. Drew, do you also have a collection of the "EOD" M11's too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casca174 Posted September 22, 2020 Share #8 Posted September 22, 2020 mohawkALSE ... No I haven't scooped up any EOD M11's yet, unfortunately. There are still some specific M9's I want to track try and down before scoping up M11's. Regarding the OKC 10's, I like to get military issued stuff mostly instead of commercial/custom blades but the OKC 10 along with the OKC 1FTS and the OKC M10 all had ties to their creation that came out of the various blade profiles and design patterns Ontario Knife Company submitted during the 2002 USMC bayonet trials, so there is some military lineage there although very little written about it. I'm not sure how collectible these bayonets will be in the future, you'll find them on auction sites occasionally going for premium prices; often times being advertised as prototypes. I'm not sure if I would go as far as to call them prototypes since I have some of the actual prototypes. Those bayonets were probably categorized more as pre-production models Ontario used to showcase to the military in anticipation to get them contracted. Regardless, they are becoming scarce to find. All those bayonets were sold for a limited time; maybe it was because Ontario was exhausting their limited parts stock they had on hand when they expected the Army or some other branch of the military to adopt those designs in lieu of the legacy M9 platform. I'm guessing that once all the parts were used up and those limited run bayonets were sold, Ontario was probably more committed to manufacturing their military contract bayonets, the USMC OKC 3S and the standard two-slot scabbard version of the Army M9, rather than maintaining manufacturing processes for bayonets that we're not part of their military contracts ... it probably wasn't cost effective enough for OKC to continue selling those other bayonet designs, unfortunately. Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casca174 Posted March 16, 2021 Share #9 Posted March 16, 2021 I'm a long way off-topic from Misfit 45's initial post but since I posted some reference info on OKC 10's here and Juan X. from Facebook's International Bayonet Association group linked my screen name to this usmilitariaforum.com thread for OKC 10 info. I thought I would post pics of my latest OKC 10 acquisition for Juan X. to find since I'm not on FB anymore ... Juan's a big fan of the OKC 10's and I am sure he will be envious of this particular OKC 10 prototype when he discovers this thread again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casca174 Posted March 16, 2021 Share #10 Posted March 16, 2021 mohawkALSE ... Just to touch base on your EOD M11 question above, I just dove into being an EOD M11 collector with a great set of M11's. I got a line on a trio of some Lan-Cay 1st Production Run EODs M11's I'm picking up from Frank Tszaskra (Credit for pics are from Frank Tszaskra). All three have the rarely seen retro pouches and the three different style of crossguards that I believe were tested in conjunction with the Army's 52 Ordnance Group and 754th Ordnance Company (EOD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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