Insigina Hunter Posted August 27, 2020 Share #1 Posted August 27, 2020 I am an avid collector of Luxenberg and KG Luke made WWII items. Which is what originally led me to these wings (there is a KG Luke pilot). AFTER purchasing these the seller reached out to me offering the soldiers ID bracelet and that it came from a WWII pilot that was shot down and escaped from his German POW camp (this had nothing to do with why I purchased these wings). Though I thought this was a tad outlandish I did want to keep the grouping together and said I would also purchase the ID bracelet to keep everything together as it should be. Everything arrived today and I am extremely pleased with the wings even without any backstory. A KG Luke pilot, sterling pilot and 2" blackinton pilot along with the bracelet. I've done a little research and came across these two articles: https://www.google.com/amp/s/journalstar.com/max-wilson-shot-down-plan-to-escape-almost-foiled/article_aef888d9-1b97-5a6a-8f0d-65291d7c99ea.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/qctimes.com/news/local/thats-what-neighbors-do-mark-twain-students-help-wwii-vet-displaced-by-fire/article_a8711fb8-816e-5731-9091-8de6c75e46a0.amp.html My questions are: 1) Is this the same Max Wilson mentioned above (or a large coincidence to have these wings and bracelet from another man of the same name) 2) If these are his, would he of had these through his time in the internment camp or did he re-join the fight and purchased these after escaping.? No hard feeling if this doesnt all line up, I rather know one way or the other than falsely assume. Any research help would be greatly appreciated! P.S. here are the wings ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #2 Posted August 27, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted August 27, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share #4 Posted August 27, 2020 Slightly different style hallmark than usually seen on the 1st pattern lukes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 28, 2020 Share #5 Posted August 28, 2020 If you go to the stories, one is from Lincoln Nebraska (published in 2015 and updated in 2019) and the other story is from Bettendorf Iowa in 2018. The Iowa Max supposedly lived in his home in Iowa for 65 years before it burned down, which wouldn't fit with the Nebraska Max. While Lincoln Nebraska and Bettendorf Iowa are only about 350 miles away from each other, it does seem more than likely that the two "Max Wilson" are two different people. Also, while it can be said that old folks start looking alike, the two photos of Max are probably of two totally different gentlemen. As for the two stories, one similarity is that both men seemed to have been B17 pilots in the ETO. The Swiss weren't exactly welcoming to the Americans who happened to land or "escape" to Switzerland, despite what some of the lore seems to be. This an interesting story about what it was like to be a quest of the Swiss. All things considered, you would think that if they were the same guy both stories would mention that. https://www.historynet.com/pow-hell-switzerland.htm Why the group includes an Australian made wing... All sorts of stories could be explored. The most likely is that there is at least a 3rd Max Wilson who flew in the PTO. I am not sure that many (if any) B17 groups went from the ETO into the PTO between the Germans and Japanese surrender. So it would be unlikely that a B17 pilot who escaped out of Switzerland probably in late 1944/early 1945 would have then been sent back to his unit and then on to Japan. On the other hand, It is also possible that the ETO Max Wilson ended up in the Pacific during the Korean War, which could have included a trip or two into Melbourne in the 1950's. It is also possible that somewhere along the way, a couple or 3 items got "mated up" and that is why you have the different wings in the group. In any case, the KG Luke wing is great and why let facts (such as they are) get in the way of a bitching good story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 28, 2020 Share #6 Posted August 28, 2020 BTW, I just picked up a KG Luke wing. As you mentioned, the two wings are similar but have different marks on the back. That would make at least 3 different Luke wing "patterns" if you count the hallmark variations as being different. Again, cool beans and thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US82Bravo Posted August 28, 2020 Share #7 Posted August 28, 2020 1) Service number 42097544 is an enlisted service number shown belonging to "Max H. Wilson" who entered the service 16 Aug 1944 2) MACR 4264 shows a B-17 piloted by 2nd Lt. Max E. Wilson lost on 24 Apr 1944 with notations that the crew were RTD (returned to duty). The MACR also contains a statement from S-2 files that states in part - "He dropped bombs on target and swung off towards Switzerland under control.". **MACR information from fold3 Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share #8 Posted August 28, 2020 12 hours ago, pfrost said: BTW, I just picked up a KG Luke wing. As you mentioned, the two wings are similar but have different marks on the back. That would make at least 3 different Luke wing "patterns" if you count the hallmark variations as being different. Again, cool beans and thanks for sharing. I was in on that wing as well, very nice grab. I believe that is what prompted this seller to put his up the night following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-17Guy Posted August 28, 2020 Share #9 Posted August 28, 2020 If I am not mistaken, it was not uncommon for crews that had walked out after being shot down over the continent to not return to flying duty in that theater. I think the concern was that if they returned and were shot down again, they could divulge first hand knowledge of escape procedures and could compromise local help. I am not sure how well enforced this rule was...but possibly Max #1 was sent to the Pacific Theater for that reason? Might be a long shot, but plausible. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72psb Posted August 28, 2020 Share #10 Posted August 28, 2020 If I recall correctly,Chuck Yaeger was shot down,survived,and escaped. He had to lobby hard to get back into action because of the rules discussed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfrost Posted August 28, 2020 Share #11 Posted August 28, 2020 If you can get the MACR, it would be really something nice to have, especially if this is your guy. Not to steal your thread, but I had a nice group to a B-24 co pilot who ended up in StalagIII. In my group, Lt John Kennedy (not related to the President) had lived outside of Bakersfield in California (in Porterville), where his father worked as a local dentist. It seems that once in Stalag-III, Lt Kennedy was "recruited" into serving as the camp dentist because he may have been a dental student prior to joining up. I think this is a reference to Lt Kennedy during his time as a POW in Stalag-III "Dental care for the North, West and South Compounds was provided by a British dentist and an American dental student. In 14 months, it was estimated they gave 1,400 treatments to 308 POWs from the South Compound alone." I was told by the family who I bought this group from, was that used to tell people that were afraid of the dentist he had learned most of "dentistry" skills in a POW camp--and if he treat bad teeth in Stalag III, he could do it in a clean sterile clinic.(https://www.stalagluft3.com/camp-life/) He took part of "The March West" as the Germans moved their POWs westwards, away from the Red Army in the Winter of 1944/45. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_March_(1945) After being repatriated, I believe he was sent to one of the recovery camps in France and then when he returned to his home town in Porterville, became a dentist, never married and when he passed, he gave his home and belongs to the neighbor... from whom I bought the grouping. I found the MACR for when his B24 was shot down over France in the National Archives, but I cant put my hands on it right now. In a nut shell, I was able to learn that while returning from a bombing run, the plane had some engine trouble or flak damage, and fell behind the formation. They were attacked by German fighters, during which the pilot was mortally wounded and the bombardier was killed outright. Kennedy (the copilot) kept the plane aloft long enough for about half the crew to bail out, the rest crash landed in France with Kennedy at the helm. Kennedy was wounded and stayed with the mortally wounded pilot, while the rest of the surviving crew from the crash plane escaped into the countryside. I believe about 1/2 the crew eventually evaded made it back to England and eventually returned to duty, while the other half were captured and spent the rest of the war as guests of the Germans. By late in the war, from everything I have heard, the various AAF groups in both the ETO and PTO no longer had the same issues with keeping pilots and aircrews in the air due to the high mortality rates (close to 100% in 1942-43) that had existed earlier in the war. In fact, as the war progressed I have read that it became harder and harder for pilots to keep flying as their were more and more new pilots being trained behind them. So, I suspect that there was little incentive to send a pilot who had returned to his ETO-based unit some 6-9 months after being captured (according to the news story) out to the PTO. I would assume that just the time and effort for rehabilitation and retraining would have taken longer than the war would actually last. Unless there was some sort of specific skill or need, it seems like the chances of them sending him out to the Pacific after returning from a "POW-camp" in Switzerland to be pretty low. I had also read somewhere that once captured and escaped from the Germans, it wasn't a really good or healthy idea for you to get captured again. In fact, I don't think I have every heard of an American pilot becoming a return guest of the Germans after having successfully escaped from them one before. I'm pretty sure they frowned on that type of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted August 28, 2020 Share #12 Posted August 28, 2020 Very cool thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insigina Hunter Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted September 6, 2020 Thank you everybody for the comments. I'll keep digging and see what turns up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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