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M8 scabbard


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I have always thought that an M8A1 scabbard (with out metal tip) is WWII and is correct for the guard marked M3 knives and M4 bayonets. And that the M8 scabbard and M6 scabbard is correct for the blade marked and blade dated M3s.

 

I have a 'US M3 Camillus' blade marked M3 I don't have a scabbard for it, and am looking for one...I don't think an M6 would be correct for this M3 (not sure though), so i've been looking for an M8 scabbard. After looking and looking i've noticed 98% of them are made from M8A1 parts, and are not genuine M8s.

What are the differences in the M8s and the M8A1s? what should I look for in finding an M8 scabbard.

 

thanks! any good placed to look for 'em?

 

~Brad

 

btw could an undated maker blade marked Camillus M3 be dated to around early '44?

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The lenght of the webbing hanger of my original, unmodified M8 is 11.5 cm, while the lenght of the webbing hanger on my Vietnam-era M8A1 is 13.5 cm (both measured from the top of the metal throat).

 

Greetz ;)

 

David

Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

 

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Three things make for a correct WW2 M8 scabbard

 

1. NO cartridge belt hooks

 

2. Shorter web hanger as David described above

 

3. Manufacture by Beckwith Mfg Co (B M CO).

 

I've seen color shade of webbing on these range from tan to OD #3 to OD #7 and sometimes mismatched and all are correct for a WW2 M8.

 

Greg

 

I've attached a pic of a near mint M8 w/guard marked PAL M3

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Greg Robinson "marine-kabar"

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Frank Trzaska wrote an excellent article on the M3 and the scabbards in the January 2008 issue of Knife World.

 

To quickly summarize, the blade marked and dated M3 knife was manufactured from March 1943 to September 1943. The M8 scabbard was first delivered in July 1943 so the dated M3 was issued in either the M6 or M8 depending on whether it was early or late.

 

The blade marked but not dated M3 was made from September 1943 to November 1943. M6 scabbard production was discontinued in that same month, so the blade marked M3 can be properly found in either scabbard.

 

Guard marked M3s were made from November 1943 to July 1944, and would normally be only found in the M8 scabbard although some of the very early production MAY have been issued in the M6.

 

The changeover from the M3 knife to the M4 knife-bayonet and the change from the M8 to the M8A1 both occurred in July 1944 and the M4 should normally be found in the M8A1 scabbard. Keep in mind that a large number of M8A1 scabbards are marked M8 on the throat as the die was not changed for several months.

Gary Cunningham - Bayonetman

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Frank Trzaska wrote an excellent article on the M3 and the scabbards in the January 2008 issue of Knife World.

 

The changeover from the M3 knife to the M4 knife-bayonet and the change from the M8 to the M8A1 both occurred in July 1944 and the M4 should normally be found in the M8A1 scabbard. Keep in mind that a large number of M8A1 scabbards are marked M8 on the throat as the die was not changed for several months.

 

Gary, wouldn't it be possible that early production M4's be issued with an M8 scabbard as they both came out in the same month? I have a PAL M4 with a BMCO M8 and they "look" like they have been together for some time, as they are both in identical condition, but of course they is no way of determining that for sure.

 

Thanx, butch

NRA & GCA Member

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Gary, wouldn't it be possible that early production M4's be issued with an M8 scabbard as they both came out in the same month? I have a PAL M4 with a BMCO M8 and they "look" like they have been together for some time, as they are both in identical condition, but of course they is no way of determining that for sure.

 

Thanx, butch

 

 

Yes, it would be possible that some very early M4 bayonets were shipped with M8 scabbards. The bayonet would have to be early production, and in the case of PAL (and most other makers) would have square grooves in the grip rather than the V cut grooves, and possibly would have 8 grooves rather than 6. If it has six grooves, they would probably be spaced as they had been on the M3 without the two end ones. The photo shows a Kinfolks with this very early style grip.

 

bp16-kinfolks.JPG

Gary Cunningham - Bayonetman

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Thank you, Gary. thumbsup.gif

 

Butch

NRA & GCA Member

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I have an M-4/M-8A1 set for which I know the exact date of issue. It was issued to glider pilot 1LT Irudell K. "Ike" Dye on 14 Aug 1944 -- the day before the Southern France invasion. This the earliest I have seen the M-4 knife-bayonet and M-8 (M-8A1) in overseas use -- and in the MTO at that.

 

It is guard-marked "U.S. M4/CAMILLUS" and has six square-cut grip grooves. The scabbard throat is marked "U.S. M8/B.M.CO." but has the belt hanger. It has a length of OD paarchute cord as a tie-down thong and has been sharpened.

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I have an M-4/M-8A1 set for which I know the exact date of issue. It was issued to glider pilot 1LT Irudell K. "Ike" Dye on 14 Aug 1944 -- the day before the Southern France invasion. This the earliest I have seen the M-4 knife-bayonet and M-8 (M-8A1) in overseas use -- and in the MTO at that.

 

It is guard-marked "U.S. M4/CAMILLUS" and has six square-cut grip grooves. The scabbard throat is marked "U.S. M8/B.M.CO." but has the belt hanger. It has a length of OD paarchute cord as a tie-down thong and has been sharpened.

 

I have to agree that your set is about the earliest even possible, as Ordnance records show only 500 of the Bayonet-Knife, M4 having been delivered in July 1944 (the earliest accepted production). The six square grooves are correct for a Camillus of that early date. It was issued of course as a substitute for the M3 knife as the M1 Carbine fitted for bayonet was certainly not an item of issue at that time. It is certainly nice that you have such firm provenance so we can begin to set date parameters for the issue of the item.

Gary Cunningham - Bayonetman

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Where on an M8 Scabbard would the "BM CO" marking be found? Mine seems to be unmarked but for the "USM8" on the throat piece. It has all the other proper features described above for a WWII piece.

 

It is currently mated with a guard marked Case M3 (no bomb) and a legit leg strap.

Illegitimi Non Carborundum

 

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Right under the 'US M8' stamping on the metal throat, but there may be a stamping on another location. I vaguely remember seeing one on a scabbard.

 

Greetz ;)

 

David

Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

 

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Just to resume, there are my three BM Co scabbards. From the bottom:

- First issue M8, no hook and short web

- First issue M8A1, long web but still marked only M8

- Current M8A1 (arsenal refurbished), marked M8A1

 

To complete the serie it miss the first issue M8 short web with the M1910 hook added and stitched more or less professionally.

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Just to resume, there are my three BM Co scabbards. From the bottom:

- First issue M8, no hook and short web

- First issue M8A1, long web but still marked only M8

- Current M8A1 (arsenal refurbished), marked M8A1

 

To complete the serie it miss the first issue M8 short web with the M1910 hook added and stitched more or less professionally.

so there was an M8 (early) that had a hook?

I would definately love to see it if some one has a pic!

was the web lengthened when the hook was added?

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what about this one? It HAD a name tape on it..someone took off...so it would have been issued... but it says USM8...

were the USM8 made from parts issued to soldiers?

 

The one shown in the photos was an M8A1 from which the double hook was removed. Easy to tell from the length of the hanger above the retaining strap.

 

Here is some information on the M8 conversions to M8A1 and other information on these scabbards:

 

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayo_points_18.htm

Gary Cunningham - Bayonetman

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It's not unusual in these times to find a lot of M8A1 scabbards deprived of the hook. It's not casual. Many european Armies received M1 carbines (and M3knives) from US atfer WWI and some of them, i.e. italian Army, had the british P37 webbing which dont need hooks so it was removed. Months ago an italian seller was solding an huge number of Vietnam era PWH made scabbards with no hooks advertised as WWII and posting just one tricky pic he screwed me too.

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