Thoughts on this familiar m1 medic helmet...?

[walleyealx]

Good day everyone! I'm an avid collector of ww2 firearms and I dabble in some prints, but in the last couple of months I found myself interested in getting a WW2 US helmet. I got out sniped on a couple on ebay that ended up going for $1200 and $1800 (a medic and navy helmet) right at the end. During my bidding and watching I was doing as much research as I could on the different helmets (swivel bail, front seam, paint, etc...) so now I feel like I know next to nothing instead of nothing.

 

Since I'm in the medical field I thought it would be cool to get a medic helmet. I was aware that reproductions are made and did some research on the reference forums on this site, but I saw one pop up on ebay a couple weeks ago that passed my extremely novice eye test. I win the helmet (for what I now understand is about twice of what it's worth) and I'm pretty stoked. I continued to do research on various forums when I came across the following thread:

 

 

As you may may imagine I read through the pages with great interest... Well, I received it in the mail today. Below is a youtube link to the unboxing and black light test. I'm not sure I did the black light test right, but it showed one reflective fragment of white paint (circled in the last picture).  My loope is going to be here tomorrow, but it looks like the white paint has good crackles.

 

 

My concern is not so much of how much I paid, because there is no fixing that, but I'd like to know if you think it's authentic and to what era (I know that it's a swivel bail so it would be ~ June 44 at the earliest). I have 7 days to return it so if you have any specific request for videos or pictures please let me know. If you are in the west-central Florida area and would like to take a look in person, that would be awesome.

 

Thanks ahead of time!

 

Alex

 

 

 

[B24AT6]

In the other thread I was one of the ones who was incorrectly concerned that the seller may have been a faker. I was incorrect and regret that thread causing any question about this helmet because it is entirely original, albeit Post-WWII in my opinion.

 

The helmet appears to have been used in Korea or perhaps even later, and assuming that the liner is original the remanants of an ID appears to be an “RA” number that would indicate Post-WWII use.

[dmar836]

Not stepping into this one again. Was already dressed down sufficiently. 

Welcome to the forum.

Dave

[walleyealx]

17 minutes ago, dmar836 said:

Not stepping into this one again. Was already dressed down sufficiently. 

Welcome to the forum.

Dave

 

Hopefully some others are willing to chime in with the new pictures.

1 hour ago, B24AT6 said:

In the other thread I was one of the ones who was incorrectly concerned that the seller may have been a faker. I was incorrect and regret that thread causing any question about this helmet because it is entirely original, albeit Post-WWII in my opinion.

 

The helmet appears to have been used in Korea or perhaps even later, and assuming that the liner is original the remanants of an ID appears to be an “RA” number that would indicate Post-WWII use.

 Does post-WWII mean generally refurbished/painted after WWII or not even used until after?

[B24AT6]

17 minutes ago, walleyealx said:

 

Hopefully some others are willing to chime in with the new pictures.

 Does post-WWII mean generally refurbished/painted after WWII or not even used until after?

In this case it would mean that the medic markings were applied Post-WWII, in my opinion at least. It’s possible that they are from the Late-WWII period, but unlikely.

The helmet shell itself could have been used during WWII and refurbished for Post-WWII use.

[Costa]

if you like the lid keep it. any doubts-------- return it. both the liner and pot are ww2. as for the painted insignia it could be after ww2 right into korea or later. as many of the guys stated hard to tell. now the thing is the name POWERS. is that the original liner that was married to the pot belonging to the same man?? no name in the pot. so if it is possible to see the entire name then you may be able to get a record and see if POWERS was indeed a medic. as for post war as you asked-- after ww2 loads of lids were reworked by re-painting, new straps as well as liners. of course there was much surplus that was not issued and post ww2 was onward. ww2 helmets had a long life with loads of the same serving in ww2, post ww2, korea, post korea and right into nam. again, you like - you keep.

[Nickman983]

Nothing jumps out at me right away as a red flag on this one. Hard to say for sure without having it in hand but I'm looking forward to seeing some closeups of the paint once you get the loupe.

[ken88]

it's a real late WW2 or later medic lid. There are others with numbers 3 and 4 around instead of 1, not sure what it would mean but yours is most likely part of that organisational line. This line of helmets isn't fake but yes Jamie Kashetta had one when he was still collecting honest helmets.

[MattS]

In 1945, tons of helmets got put into storage and there was no pressing need to refurbish them. The Army was tired and wasn't looking for another conflict to break out 5 years later in Korea. Consequently, there was a mad rush to try and press WW2 surplus back into action with little regard as to whether it was 100% refurbished and 'like-new'. If it was serviceable, it got used. It's possible this front seam swivel bail could have been quickly issued and painted with crosses in 1950 when there was suddenly a need to start issuing helmets and equipment to the now tiny peacetime Army.

[Blacksmith]

This helmet aside, as a friendly recommendation, I would switch the order of your activities.  Specifically, ask for opinions first, then get your wallet out - this is especially the case when buying high-end painted, paratrooper, super-ace-commando-SEAL-Raider helmets.  If a more dangerous genre of militaria collecting exists, I can’t think if it.

 

I understand, some folks get caught up in the moment, or want to keep the helmet a “secret” until they secure it.  That comes with risk - moreso if you aren’t real knowledgeable in the subject matter.

 

Good luck.

[MattS]

12 minutes ago, Blacksmith said:

This helmet aside, as a friendly recommendation, I would switch the order of your activities.  Specifically, ask for opinions first, then get your wallet out - this is especially the case when buying high-end painted, paratrooper, super-ace-commando-SEAL-Raider helmets.  If a more dangerous genre of militaria collecting exists, I can’t think if it.

 

I understand, some folks get caught up in the moment, or want to keep the helmet a “secret” until they secure it.  That comes with risk - moreso if you aren’t real knowledgeable in the subject matter.

 

Good luck.

 

I agree, although this helmet was certainly the subject of much debate and conjecture for weeks before selling on eBay for $840.00 (not including tax and shipping).

[walleyealx]

1 hour ago, Blacksmith said:

This helmet aside, as a friendly recommendation, I would switch the order of your activities.  Specifically, ask for opinions first, then get your wallet out - this is especially the case when buying high-end painted, paratrooper, super-ace-commando-SEAL-Raider helmets.  If a more dangerous genre of militaria collecting exists, I can’t think if it.

 

I understand, some folks get caught up in the moment, or want to keep the helmet a “secret” until they secure it.  That comes with risk - moreso if you aren’t real knowledgeable in the subject matter.

 

Good luck.

 

A few weeks ago I had no idea what kind of hornets nest of collecting I was getting myself into. It has definitely been an eye opening experience. I guess I've been spoiled with garands, carbines, etc... through the CMP and got a bit naive.

 

I appreciate everyone's input thus far.

[sgtdorango]

Nice helmet...enjoy it👍🏻....mike

[gravecreek]

Reference Books, Reference Books . I suggest you purchase one or two of these before you spend an more of your hard earned cash.

 

[Blacksmith]

There are a couple of really knowledgeable medic helmet collectors on this forum - maybe there was another topic where this was reviewed?  
 

I won’t name names, so they can choose their own involvement.

[walleyealx]

I've attached the pictures of the painted parts taken through my low dollar loupe ("30X and 60X"). I don't see any cracking in the white paint, not sure if that means anything. The extra bit of red paint on the right side of the cross looks completely different than the main section (and was also kind of reflective on the black light test). What say you fellas?

[B24AT6]

Nothing wrong there, enjoy the helmet.

[anton67]

Ugggg.  Not again.  If you read the other thread you will know that some liked it and some did not.   It’s all opinions and conjecture.   In the end YOU have to decide.   
There is really nothing to add to the last thread and that is why it was closed.  

[ArchangelDM]

3 hours ago, anton67 said:

Ugggg.  Not again.  If you read the other thread you will know that some liked it and some did not.   It’s all opinions and conjecture.   In the end YOU have to decide.   
There is really nothing to add to the last thread and that is why it was closed.  

Agreed 

[walleyealx]

6 hours ago, anton67 said:

Ugggg.  Not again.  If you read the other thread you will know that some liked it and some did not.   It’s all opinions and conjecture.   In the end YOU have to decide.   
There is really nothing to add to the last thread and that is why it was closed.  

 

3 hours ago, ArchangelDM said:

Agreed 

I feel like I added about 50 pictures, but maybe I'm wrong? 🤔 

 

As I am new to the world of helmets, I guess I thought there was a chance to get a stronger foothold as to it's authenticity from some of the veteran collectors; however, it seems I may have overestimated the possibility of this.

It is scary do you think that there's really no way to authenticate better, even with it in hand. 

[Blacksmith]

I think what you are experiencing is the end of the proverbial road on opinions.  You’ve squeezed all of the juice out of the lemon, with pictures, descriptions, questions, inference, etc.

 

If you comb through the helmet forums, here and elsewhere, this is a pretty common state of being - especially on more exotic examples, like Medic, Airborne, camo, ARVN Ranger, blah, blah, aaaaaaaaand, blah.

 

You’ll have a broad range of opinions, from a broad range of experience, which complicates things since - until you get to know who’s who - you don’t know which opinion(s) to heed.  You also have the “one-looker” ilk.  Nothing is ever a “one-looker” helmet, unless it’s one they own / post.  They seldom support their opinion with any technical observation, just say “not a one-looker for me”.  Yawn.
 

Bottom line, as Anton implies, you have pretty much all you’re going to get at this point.  Now YOU have to decide.  In the end, the opinion that matters now is yours, based on the feedback you’ve gotten.  If you are looking for an unequivocal and unanimous statement of originality, you are unlikely to ever get that.  The only other opinion that matters, is the person you may try to sell it to.  They will likely post it for opinions, have to decide for themselves, and ‘round the Maypole we go...

 

Welcome to helmet collecting.  🥳

[Bugme]

10 hours ago, anton67 said:

 ...There is really nothing to add to the last thread and that is why it was closed.  

Really? And here I thought I closed it because: "Opinion had replaced knowledge and educated discussion. Suspicion and speculation had replaced fact. And I was watching seasoned members jump on new members like rabid dogs..." guess I was mistaken.

[anton67]

Ok then.  I stand corrected.  I still stand by my statement that: some liked it and some did not.   It’s all opinions and conjecture.   In the end YOU have to decide.    

[MattS]

Occam's razor, it most likely looks like an original medic helmet because it is an original medic helmet.

 

Enjoy it, nice lid. 

[ArchangelDM]

1 hour ago, anton67 said:

Ok then.  I stand corrected.  I still stand by my statement that: some liked it and some did not.   It’s all opinions and conjecture.   In the end YOU have to decide.    

That’s what I was agreeing with, the owner must decide after reading the threads here. 

 

enjoy the helmet 

 

 - Dean