"White" USN khakis?

[marmer]

Twice today I've seen something that looks like a WWII service dress khaki officer uniform in what appears to be white.  While browsing this forum for mentions of it, the first post about the grays mentioned that Admiral King had a non-reg set of whites made.  I wonder if that was the only one.  Look at the far-left Commander in this pic of Admiral Ingersoll's staff in 1944.  I get that most of them are wearing grays although the second from right looks like khaki.

 

And this capture from a French US Navy guide, which could of course be wrong, but is right in other details about other uniforms.

 

So what's the story here?  Was there an unofficial non-choker white?  I can't find any mention of it in official sources.

 

Thanks!

[MattS]

Service dress blue, service dress white, service dress gray, service dress khaki, and tropical dress white (?) all in one photo. All that's missing is a pilot in aviation green! 

[Justin B.]

14 hours ago, marmer said:

Twice today I've seen something that looks like a WWII service dress khaki officer uniform in what appears to be white.  While browsing this forum for mentions of it, the first post about the grays mentioned that Admiral King had a non-reg set of whites made.  I wonder if that was the only one.

 

The four-star COMINCH-CNO could get away with something like that, but probably no one else. There was a huge variation in shades of cotton and wool khaki material, and some wash khakis could fade to the point they might look white in b&w photos, especially in sunlight or overexposed. I think the one on the left in the photo is in khaki, the cap cover and shirt don't look white. I think all those coats are khaki except maybe third from the right.

 

BTW check out the contrast between the khaki trousers and coats on these Seabee chiefs:

 

The color illustration is just a mistake, it's khaki. The French navy's whites had an open collar, shirt and tie, so maybe they were confused.

 

The British Royal Navy, BTW, had both choker ("white tunic") and shirt-and-tie ("white coat") whites for officers from the end of WW1 to 1932, wearer's option.

 

56 minutes ago, MattS said:

Service dress blue, service dress white, service dress gray, service dress khaki, and tropical dress white (?) all in one photo.

 

The WW2 term for khaki or gray uniforms was "working." SDK came around in 1948 for the dry-clean wool khaki uniform, tie required. "Tropical" uniforms in WW2 were white or khaki short-sleeve shirts and shorts.

[MattS]

4 hours ago, Justin B. said:

The WW2 term for khaki or gray uniforms was "working." SDK came around in 1948 for the dry-clean wool khaki uniform, tie required. "Tropical" uniforms in WW2 were white or khaki short-sleeve shirts and shorts.

 

I'll take your word for it, but that sounds familiar.

[sigsaye]

39 minutes ago, MattS said:

 

I'll take your word for it, but that sounds familiar.

Cotton drill khakis fade (ed) horribly and quickly. Even in the 1960s/1970s, CPOs, (I’d assume officers too), would actually “Number the shirts and trousers when they bought them. Always as a set. The thought was that they would fade together, staying the same “Shade”. 

[P-40Warhawk]

Right, what you are seeing are the shades based on wear, based on the camera (filters and films react differently to certain colors, and without having the notes from the photographer it's up in the air), and of course based on the material. Some of the darker 'khakis' in the photo are likely gaberdine, and the lighter ones are likely cotton. Each supplier was supposed to meet certain specifications when they were listed as an authorized supplier of officer's uniforms, but as said there will always be a slight range of variations in dye lots.

[Justin B.]

A faded cotton khaki uniform in color and gray scale.

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/80-G-K-13000/80-G-K-13940.html

[MattS]

So the bottom line is that there is no "officer's summer white uniform" as in the OP's illustration?

[sigsaye]

7 minutes ago, MattS said:

So the bottom line is that there is no "officer's summer white uniform" as in the OP's illustration?

You are correct. That would be a no. What you are seeing is faded, camera angle based on lighting, whatever, Khaki. Only Admirals got to create their own uniforms. 

[sigsaye]

2 hours ago, Justin B. said:

A faded cotton khaki uniform in color and gray scale.

 

https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/80-G-K-13000/80-G-K-13940.html

This is khaki. Could be faded, could be lighting. 

[Justin B.]

3 hours ago, MattS said:

So the bottom line is that there is no "officer's summer white uniform" as in the OP's illustration?

 

No. I think the artist probably didn't know better and used a b&w photo of a light khaki uniform as the basis of the whites illustration.

[MattS]

7 hours ago, Justin B. said:

 

No. I think the artist probably didn't know better and used a b&w photo of a light khaki uniform as the basis of the whites illustration.

Makes sense.