Faciat Georgius (USMC George Medal) at auction

[castagain]

Hello all,

 

I'd appreciate opinions from Forum members regarding the authenticity of this George Medal.  Not my field of expertise.

 

Thanks in advance,

Donovan

 

[Tinley100]

I like it- 

[Basic Rifleman]

Is this the same one that sold on eBay last week?

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126306330058?itmmeta=01HVMBWMX4VFVYA89MT1AE2PJR&hash=item1d6871a5ca:g:BB4AAOSwcExluA-h&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4Ow7OkqWaln0PorJaBzCNZ3G4ZGm47O%2BcXg7KmoR9ZN2X%2BfBiKLgvCMDm3ZDJvU7df3%2FRYutgl2O5XZLXwn%2FJojw%2FWfOSWm8UelIslMyZVmmZuCL0n8GctRXuF6%2BzP43YxOMfzC%2Bqloi1XEASXG3eXwLyttZWoqGtRFII80I2Wqs0mYIYQT46sQQCJ43UUZixrsE2TaDEgw%2FmcgLfBMFAPVWdhopzqbSt8QDPekDetiyRSiBfI%2FTNZjgOTxFmvavZt6%2FccDBsYRsQGqSYdD5bTwITHPKTU%2Fq5ht6IVxfywXq|tkp%3ABk9SR9rO8ovdYw

 

 

[castagain]

Thanks Tinley100, I appreciate it.  Yes Basic Rifleman, I purchased the set in the photo on eBay recently. 

 

Best regards,

Donovan

[Honcho]

Tinley,

Thank you for your work on the Faciat Georgius medal.

I have learned a lot from you - and there is Not a lot of info out there on this one, as you well know!

 

I believe now as well that there are two types, the first type is smaller than the second 'strike,' and also that Marines who had 'been there' somehow purchased examples these through the decades. Also, that there have been many fakes. 

 

I hope your research is progressing - there are some like who truly appreciate you attempts.

 

John

[Honcho]

Just now, Honcho said:

Tinley,

Thank you for your work on the Faciat Georgius medal.

I have learned a lot from you - and there is Not a lot of info out there on this one, as you well know!

 

I believe now as well that there are two types, the first type is smaller than the second 'strike,' and also that Marines who had 'been there' somehow purchased examples of these through the decades. Also, that there have been many fakes. 

 

I hope your research is progressing - there are some like me who truly appreciate you attempts.

 

John

 

[Honcho]

Sorry for two duplicate posts.  I am new to this great forum, and trying to learn how to correct my mistakes.

 

Brig - please let me add that you are 100% correct - unless a 'Let George Do It' medal  has provenance - preferably from a prominent family - these are VERY hard to authenticate.

 

If I am ever lucky enough to get one, it will be, not from eBay, but I hope from some prominent family whose ancestor was in the USMC and has had it since WWII.

That is - if I can afford it!

 

[Honcho]

I thought, after looking through everything available on the net, what we are seriously  missing on the Faciat Georgius medal - is close-ups, details of these medals.

 

We see this for other medals and badges, but not this one for some reason. It's almost taboo.

 

I'll start the ball rolling.  Here are close-ups of a supposed George Medal.

 

One feature that seems to be necessary on a real example is the 'phantom cactus' that should be in the background between the two cactus shoots on the left.

Also of note, the 'injured' or line-indented top knuckle of the Navy hand.

Enjoy!

 

[Honcho]

I just thought of this:

 

If a copy is well done enough, the details I pointed out would still be present!

So - I don't know how helpful - if at all - my close-ups were. Maybe pointless. But I hope interesting at least.

 

Another member posted about judging by the measurements and weights of originals.  That would be a great indicator of authenticity.

 

Member Adam R summed it up well in a 2013 post, that the waters are so muddied now, since even vets bought copies in the 60s and 70s, that any George medal found, even if direct from a vet family, should be considered a copy.

 

And like Forrest Gump said:

 

'That's all I have to say about that.'

 

[Honcho]

Wow,

Humbled by the truth of these.  Strange to have a discussion by myself, but I get it that most don't want to get into this. 

This is the last post I make, to set myself straight on these, on the record. I kept looking into this subject.  How wrong can a guy be?

 

There was indeed a second mold made after the war, besides the first mold made in Australia.  The first mold supposedly made 100 in the first run, and a second order for 400 more was placed with the Australian company to satisfy demand. There is a surviving first type certificate in the high 300s. The story repeated throughout history is that the 1st mold broke at some point, so we don't know how many first types were made. 50 is the usual number given - but again, there is a real certificate for a first type in the high 300s.

 

There was for sure a second mold made, now existing at the USMC museum, donated to them around 1978, by the son of Brig. General James J. Keating. 

 

Keating was commanding officer of the 3rd Battalion, 11th Marines - on 'Catus Island.'

 

He had a second mold commissioned post-war to award this special medal to those 1st Marine Division soldiers who had fought at Guadalcanal and never received one. These were handed out at vet reunions, and other such gatherings of 1st Division Marines.

(See USMC.Edu - Marine Corps University Press - Always Faithful, Chapter 11.)

 

So these 2nd types are of course different - a little larger - and in their own way, they are every bit as legitimate as the first type, and just as special.  They had/have a huge meaning to the vets who received them. 

 

 So - like the Asiatic Pacific Campaign medal that wasn't available until 1948 - and had to be requested by Marines who earned them - the 2nd type Georgius medal was handed out post-war among the Guadalcanal band of brothers.  Where and when each was bestowed is hard to determine.  One thing is certain - these post-war awards were something approaching sacred, that really is not up for much discussion. You had to be there, in other words. What these men suffered, endured, and achieved, is legendary, and deserves the respect of every American.

 

If a Marine vet's family has one from the vet, I have zero problem with it. It's up to each collector to decide for himself.  All of this just IMO. 'Nuff said.

 

John