Noble (F.H. Noble) & Co.: examples and patterns

[5thwingmarty]

Its a name followed by "With Love" on the wings, and 1942 is engraved behind the shield.

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Nice Marty

[Costa]

a nice 1 and noble to boot.

[5thwingmarty]

Here is another one I recently picked up. The front appears to be the same as the others shown here.

 

[5thwingmarty]

And here is the back. It has the same "Hercules" fittings as my Noble wing, but is an unmarked slick back wing. Its heavy at 25.1 grams (387 grains). The original 1921 War Department drawing for Aviation Badges called for the Airplane Pilot Badge to be made of fine silver and weigh 385 grains. I have not tested the metal to see if it is sterling or fine silver.

[5thwingmarty]

With my latest Noble wing acquisition, and after seeing one of the instructor field wings that Todd posted, I thought I would start a thread dedicated to the varieties of these wings.  First up are my three Noble-hallmarked wings.  The Liaison does not have the typical really heavy Hercules findings, but they may have been removed and replaced when the wing was engraved.

 

[5thwingmarty]

Next up are three more pilot wings.  All three have the exact same front details, the same dimensions and the same vaulting when viewed on edge.  The first is a true slick-back wing with Noble's Hercules findings.  The second has similar findings but they are slightly smaller than those on the other wings.  The last has a pin that is heavier than all the others and also has a come-under catch.  Based on Todd's airfield wing, I don't think there is any doubt that the slick-back wing in an un-hallmarked Noble wing.  His wing is the only Noble-hallmarked example I have seen that is a true slick-back.  I have invited Todd to add photos of his wing to this thread.  If anyone has any other varieties of Noble wings please add them to the thread as well.

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Here is my marked solid back Noble wing. Looks the twin to yours Marty, though hallmarked.

 

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Next up is a hallmarked Noble with the typical N-in-a-circle mark with straight sterling on the vertical. This is most similar to the first two wings posted by Marty. The hand scratched engraving is "TO KATE    FROM HERB"

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Finally for my Nobles, is an unmarked wing with a very massive Hercules finding which is the giveaway. Most similar in stamping to your last wing posted, Marty.

 

[cwnorma]

Here is my lone contribution to this thread.  I have never been certain if this unmarked badge was made by Noble.  The front is typical Adams die and the back is most similar (appears identical?) to the bottom badge in Marty's original post above.  It has the large Hercules catch but a different, still massive pin.

 

[5thwingmarty]

To go along with the other flight school wing posted, I have borrowed photos from another thread to add here.  It appears Maj. C.C. Moseley acquired gold finished Noble wings and had them engraved for the instructors at his fields.  There are at least three of these posted here on the forum.  The first one Bob Hudson had at one time, and the second was shared by Russ.  Note both hollow back and slick back versions were used.  I think the thought that Noble was not producing wings during WWII may be wrong, and I should have another bit of evidence for this soon.

 

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Once you see it, it's obvious. Thanks Marty

[B-17Guy]

I have a few F.H. Noble wings I can add.

Since the Army has been covered, I'll add my two Naval Aviator Wing Badges.

The first has the Noble back mark and the second is the same pattern, but marked Rolled Gold.

I feel that both date from the 1920's.

 

John

[B-17Guy]

Second

[5thwingmarty]

Here is the Naval Aviator I just picked up.  It is flat like John's hallmarked wing, but has the fittings like his rolled gold wing.  It isn't hallmarked though.

 

 

[5thwingmarty]

And one more thing to add.  I just picked up a 1942 F.H. Noble catalog, and this is the one page of military insignia in it.  Noble was still offering the pilot wings and naval aviator wings in 1942, along with a variety of sweetheart pieces.  Unfortunately they don't give the sizes for any of the items, but the pilot and naval aviator are shown full size.  Of note is the little observer wing, an example of which is shown on Bob's website.  

 

 

[pfrost]

I always felt that the idea that Noble was only a pre-war company to be suspect, myself.  It is good to see some actual proof of this.  Still, a very handsome pattern of wings.

[cwnorma]

I just want say thank you to all of you gentlemen.  It is amazing how much real research comes out on this site.  Truly a treasure and a treat!

[rathbonemuseum.com]

Great catalog proof

[5thwingmarty]

Ok, and now to potentially break some hearts.  Here is a page from F.H. Noble catalog No. 29, from I believe 1935.  Some of the items are the same, some are shown that are not present in the newer catalog, and most notably, there are NO naval wings shown.  To me this indicates that the Noble naval wings date to the late 1930's at the earliest, not the 1920's.  If anyone else can locate any other 1920's to 1940's Noble catalogs please share.  Note, the numbers on the cover (such as No. 29) do not appear to correspond with dates of publication.  The dates of the catalogs are assumed based on items shown in them that have dates on them, like sports medals and trophies.

 

[Steve Brannan]

Is this a Noble?


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[5thwingmarty]

It has a catch like a Noble but the shield details are not Noble.  It looks more like an A.E.Co. with the raised center vertical strip which appears to be slightly wider than the other raised stripes, and the raised lines in the recessed stripes.  Noble wings have the center stripe recessed and no raised lines in the recessed stripes.

[Steve Brannan]

Thanks. I’d thought the large straight in pins were 1930s vintage or early War period.


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[B-17Guy]

20 hours ago, 5thwingmarty said:

Ok, and now to potentially break some hearts.  Here is a page from F.H. Noble catalog No. 29, from I believe 1935.  Some of the items are the same, some are shown that are not present in the newer catalog, and most notably, there are NO naval wings shown.  To me this indicates that the Noble naval wings date to the late 1930's at the earliest, not the 1920's.  If anyone else can locate any other 1920's to 1940's Noble catalogs please share.  Note, the numbers on the cover (such as No. 29) do not appear to correspond with dates of publication.  The dates of the catalogs are assumed based on items shown in them that have dates on them, like sports medals and trophies.

 

 

 

 

Hey Marty, great information.

It’s always great to see new discoveries and it should never break hearts.      
I have always thought 20’s-30’s but leaned towards the 20’s, however nobody has ever known for sure.
Thanks for adding information for consideration and further research!
 

John