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What kind of knife is this early WWII AAF officer wearing?


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Any thoughts on the knife this officer is wearing on his belt? He was a Bombardier, and died very early in 1943, so this has to be the first years of the 1940s. 

 

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Here is a close view:

 

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Wow! You are fast! :) Is that a military knife? It looks kind of thin. Is it just a utility knife? Would it have been issued? 

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Don't know about the boots, either, but wondered the same thing! He trained and then was stationed in the Aleutians with the 36th Bomb Squad.

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How long would the knife like he is wearing be? Also . . . what would that scabbard be like if you could see it better? 

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Oh, tarry and be strong; Tell God in prayer. What is thy hidden grief; Thy secret care.

Yet, if no answer come; Pray on and wait: God's time is always best; Never too late.

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The Western G46-6" Shark fighting knife was both USMC and USN issue. Here is one in the Shark "foldover" sheath. This is what looks like the knife in the picture to me.

17A-6-crop=.jpg

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How long would the knife like he is wearing be? Also . . . what would that scabbard be like if you could see it better? 
Full Size shark is 6" blade 10 1/4" overall 10 3/4" in the sheath. 95af70281f6b4057cfc09a77bfaf34e0.jpg

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Elizabeth- Knife is about a 5" blade in what looks like a fold over leather sheath.  SKIP
Baby Shark would be 5" blade and 9 7/8" if put into Case 5" Foldover Sheath. It does fit in the sheath case is in.



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The pommel on the knife looks like the kind used by Western. The Western Baby Shark would be one of several manufacture's knives associated with WW2 pilots.  These are 5" fullered blades of the pattern made famous as the Marbles Ideal hunting knife in the early 20th century.  When the patents ran out on the Ideal just about all of the other knife makers came out with their own version of the knife. This style knife was specified by the Government for inclusion in some aircraft survival kits.

It might be a different style Western knife. Before the war and after Western made a large variety of knives and this might be one of those. The fold over sheath seems unusual for the knives delivered in the survival kit.

617715404_WW2pilotsknives.jpg.320a28b66d82f43637619c55b42d0d5d.jpg

 

Here are samples of some of the knives used in these kits.  The top one is a Western Baby Shark.  This is a later version with a plastic pommel instead of the aluminum version. The middle two knives are made by Camillus with two different types of blade markings.  The bottom knife is the one my father-in-law carried in the ETO as a glider pilot, it was made by Case. 

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The knife in Elizabeth's photograph appears to have only a half cross guard on it.  I'm not seeing a full cross guard that extends out both sides of the knife.   

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WWI/WWII 40th (Sunshine) Division, Camp Kearny, Camp Harry Jones, WWI/WWII 158th Infantry, USS Oklahoma, USS Swordfish (SS-193), Pearl Harbor Survivors Association, Mexican Border (1916),

Norman Air Technical Training Center (NATTC) Norman, OK, Tinker Field or AFB, Submariner Items, Knives, Bayonets, Sweetheart Jewelry, other unique

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Could also be a commercial Western pre war hunting knife or similar pattern.

 

Im seeing just three rivets on the scabbard in the B&W photo and not seeing a large double guard as the Shark had.Plus its overall size looks off on the belt for the Shark 

 

When comparing the knife and 45 magazine pouch in the photo the knife smaller than a Shark 

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I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
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Got Sis to turn it B&W and adjust it in Photoshop . .  .so here is a close view with adjusted lighting levels. It does look like 3 rivets on the sheath. I would never have thought to notice that! What is the cross guard? Is that the part between handle and blade that protects you hand?

 

Edit

Tio Catis Knife.jpg

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If you ever want a custom hand-embroidered (no machine) patch, I'm open to commissions! Pay or trade!
***********************
For an idea of my military collecting interests and wish list, see my profile page!
Looking for Old-Style US Coast Guard Commendation Medal (w/ or w/o ribbon)!

Oh, tarry and be strong; Tell God in prayer. What is thy hidden grief; Thy secret care.

Yet, if no answer come; Pray on and wait: God's time is always best; Never too late.

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Also, does it look like there is a white line in the center of the grip?

donation2018.gif

If you ever want a custom hand-embroidered (no machine) patch, I'm open to commissions! Pay or trade!
***********************
For an idea of my military collecting interests and wish list, see my profile page!
Looking for Old-Style US Coast Guard Commendation Medal (w/ or w/o ribbon)!

Oh, tarry and be strong; Tell God in prayer. What is thy hidden grief; Thy secret care.

Yet, if no answer come; Pray on and wait: God's time is always best; Never too late.

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58 minutes ago, stratasfan said:

Also, does it look like there is a white line in the center of the grip?

 

 

Yes looks like a spacer could be aluminum or fiber/plastic.

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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It could be any number of manufactures from that time period. It would be almost impossible to say definitively. I have a Ka-Bar that looks very similar to the one in the photograph but mine has a 4 rivet sheath not a 3 rivet.

 

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Mikedon- FWIW, Camillus MK1 drawings were submitted in Nov 1943, the aviator died in early 43', not a MK1 sheath by virtue of time frame.  . But, we know the fold-over scabbards existed long before that.  If the pilot was stationed in Alaska, could have been any commercial maker at the time, or whatever the Air Corps could get their hands on.  That has always been a popular style knife. SKIP

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The OP knife does look like a Western. A smaller pattern though, like this one at 7 1/4" OAL with a three rivet sheath as well. However, I don't know the circa on it. Western.jpg.9c5e0b1034f103b55d48d79c6c3ee000.jpg

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The OP knife does look like a Western. A smaller pattern though, like this one at 7 1/4" OAL with a three rivet sheath as well. However, I don't know the circa on it. Western.jpg.9c5e0b1034f103b55d48d79c6c3ee000.jpg
That has brass crossguard so it would be post war. Also doesn't look like it has Pat number so 1960s or later I believe

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The patent was for the bifurcated tang and should have run out in 1953.  However the tang stamps on the fixed blade knives seem to start transforming before then.  Western also starts stamping the reverse side of the blade with the stock number of the knife about the time that the patent number goes away.

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