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WWI USMC 5th Marine helmet on the bay


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patrick_usmc

It looked to me like an EGA put on a 2nd Division helmet, just not a Marine Helmet. I don't know about other markings, but this looks like a purposefully done rectangle, not a poorly done square to me. I could be wrong but I believe that's some army unit within the 2nd division. I don't think the EGA belongs though, so I agree, buyer beware. 

 

I know the seller to be reputable based on interactions I've had with him, so I think this to be a mistake on his part.  

 

Patrick

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Patrick, I checked his other items and they seem legit. I believe this paint job was part of a plethora of fakes that came out around 15-20 years ago. I started my WWI usmc collecting unfortunately buying two of those from a prominent dealer in Montana who was peddling some of these fakes at that time. The design/artwork here on this one is typical once again of those, and I believe done by that same artist-they were all very cartoonish in appearance, using find black lines for the details in the Indian heads and flesh colored faces, rounded ends to the feathers, etc. I suspect this dealer picked this one up thinking it real but not to my eye. Wouldn’t be the first time one of these were bought as original (once again I was guilty before I started studying these in depth). There were a lot of fake painted gas mask bags that came out at the same time. Kevin

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patrick_usmc

Good to know! I had no idea about that.

 

Looking again, the lower points of the stars are within the painted shape, so I suppose it's not the shape I was thinking of. But the black paint goes up past the EGA, almost in a rounded arch shape, it seems to me. It could be the photo quality or something, but that was the red flag for my inexperienced eyes. 

 

I'm glad to know those other details, thank you for sharing!

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normaninvasion

EGA is from the 1930s. Screw hole was done with drill and is bright and shiny. Photos are awful

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I think that background shape was used by the 17th FA, an Army unit in the 2nd Division.

s/f

Al

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The faker(s) referred to from twenty years ago or so were also faking other 2nd division helmets at that time. I had a bad red circle 23rd helmet with an most identical Indian head on it as well. This could  be a faked 17th FA helmet here that the seller has mistaken as a 5th Marine square. Either way that artwork is still not right. 

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14 hours ago, warguy said:

Patrick, I checked his other items and they seem legit. I believe this paint job was part of a plethora of fakes that came out around 15-20 years ago. I started my WWI usmc collecting unfortunately buying two of those from a prominent dealer in Montana who was peddling some of these fakes at that time. The design/artwork here on this one is typical once again of those, and I believe done by that same artist-they were all very cartoonish in appearance, using find black lines for the details in the Indian heads and flesh colored faces, rounded ends to the feathers, etc. I suspect this dealer picked this one up thinking it real but not to my eye. Wouldn’t be the first time one of these were bought as original (once again I was guilty before I started studying these in depth). There were a lot of fake painted gas mask bags that came out at the same time. Kevin

There are not that many militaria dealers in Montana.  I'm one of them.  Could you name the individual please so the rest of us aren't tarred and feathered?

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5 hours ago, warguy said:

Sure a gentleman named Hayes in Missoula

Thank you.

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hi warguy, I also had some issues with "a prominent dealer in montana" many years ago with a couple of ww1 marine tunics.

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little off topic... could yall take a look at this helmet and tell me what u think. Being sold as a relic 5th rangers

Screenshot_20200726-183843_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20200726-183814_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20200726-184452_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20200726-212931_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20200727-010107_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20200726-212405_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20200727-010141_eBay.jpg

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I will let others weigh in, my familiarity is primarily with the art and design of WWI Marine helmets. Kevin

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  • 1 month later...

You're spot on Kevin. I think we have discussed these fakes many years ago. They seem to be sporadically popping up in a few places lately. Buyer Beware!

 

S/F,

Chuck 

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