Ben G. Posted July 22, 2020 Share #1 Posted July 22, 2020 Hi, I'm trying to determine whether or not this sword is original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundance Posted July 22, 2020 Share #2 Posted July 22, 2020 I'm no expert but it looks like a German import with a replaced grip cover. Still a legit M 1850 though. How much were they asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share #3 Posted July 23, 2020 Interesting, I paid $60.00 for it. What do you mean when you say it's a German import? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctorofwar Posted July 23, 2020 Share #4 Posted July 23, 2020 I am not too familiar with M1850 pattern swords specifically but many patterns of American swords were foreign made and imported over the years commonly from the cutlers of Germany, England and France. More recently dress swords have been made in Spain. Often these foreign made blades or complete swords will be marked with the American vendor other times they are marked with the foreign maker. I think for $60 you did good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share #5 Posted July 23, 2020 Alright, I guess that this is an original piece then. I'm curious as to how many years the m1850 model was imported? Is it possible for these swords to be post civil war era? I wonder how long it took for these swords to fall out of us service. However, I didn't notice any import or Maker's marks on this particular sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundance Posted July 23, 2020 Share #6 Posted July 23, 2020 I believe the words "Iron Proof" were used primarily, if not exclusively, by German Makers. I would have been happy as a clam to pick that up for $60. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 23, 2020 Author Share #7 Posted July 23, 2020 Yeah, I suppose I got really lucky, because the seller told me they thought it was an "older reproduction". They probably didn't start reproducing civil war memrobelia until at most 30 or 40 years ago, and it definitely looks and feels a lot older than that, so I guess it must be original then. If so, it is a great piece of history and I will probably keep it as a conversation piece rather than try to sell it for more than I paid. I appreciate everyone's help in identifying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikie Posted July 23, 2020 Share #8 Posted July 23, 2020 You paid $60? Wow, great deal. And with a scabbard too! It looks just like mine except mine is French manufacture. The U.S. design was actually copied from a French sword. I've read that they were regulation until 1872, but don't sweat to that. Congrats on a great pick up! Mikie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spathologist Posted July 23, 2020 Share #9 Posted July 23, 2020 That blade etching and Iron Proof mark are pure period, and the Iron Proof mark would show importation from Germany. US-made swords didn't have it, and almost all imports of the period came from Germany. If I remember Thillmann correctly, the M1850 remained in service until the uniform shakeup in 1872. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reschenk Posted July 24, 2020 Share #10 Posted July 24, 2020 I also believe the grip is original. Most were sharkskin covered, but leather is not uncommon.. Are the initials "U.S." etched on the blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundance Posted July 24, 2020 Share #11 Posted July 24, 2020 Boy, with a scabbard you'd usually see a several hundred dollar price tag on that one in my neighborhood. Is the scabbard pretty much intact? Are there any nicks on the blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted July 25, 2020 From what I can tell, there aren't any US marks, or import or makers marks anywhere on it, I only noticed the Latin on the blade next to the eagle, and the "iron proof" mark on the backstrap. There are very little Nicks in the blade but there is quite a lot of surface rust. I wish there was some way to link this to a specific officer or something, or if it was used in the civil war, what side it was used on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share #13 Posted July 25, 2020 Oh, and the Scabbard is leather with brass fittings. I did however notice the there is a dent in the brass at the bottom of the Scabbard, Maybe this is a hint that at least the Scabbard was used at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share #14 Posted July 25, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reschenk Posted July 25, 2020 Share #15 Posted July 25, 2020 It is definitely an American sword, probably CW Union. Neither CSA nor any other entity use the "e pluribus unum" motto. It is extremely unusual not to have the "U.S." on these other side of the blade, although it was sometimes replaced with "U.S.M.C." on later sword used by Marine NCOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share #16 Posted July 25, 2020 Ok, I think it had the US stamp all along, I just wasn't seeing it before for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben G. Posted August 7, 2020 Author Share #17 Posted August 7, 2020 Hi everyone, thanks to the help of user R. Johnston, I was able to find out the manufacturer of my sword. Here are some updated photos of the "T" Maker's Mark I was able to find by removing some rust on the blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salvage Sailor Posted August 7, 2020 Share #18 Posted August 7, 2020 On 7/24/2020 at 3:02 PM, Ben G. said: Oh, and the Scabbard is leather with brass fittings. I did however notice the there is a dent in the brass at the bottom of the Scabbard, Maybe this is a hint that at least the Scabbard was used at some point. The 'dent' in the drag is quite common on foot officer scabbards. The owner would deliberately put a kink in the drag to keep the blade from rattling. I've had several of these over the years, both 1850 foot officers and 1850 Field and Staff's and all of them had the kink in the drag. Looks all original to me and a great buy on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Johnston Posted August 8, 2020 Share #19 Posted August 8, 2020 Just a little further information on the "T" stamp, we identified the sword as assembled by Tomes, Son, & Melvain of New York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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