Persian Gulf Command Posted July 9, 2020 Share #1 Posted July 9, 2020 This Pathfinder patch is being listed. Seller states it is British Made. I feel it is a U.S. made based on the design and embroidery pattern. However, the backing is different from U.S. Made examples I am familiar with. Is it an anomaly or something else? Here is the listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-WWII-US-Army-101st-Airborne-Infantry-Division-Pathfinder-British-made-patch/324221121903?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D09d36e3eca0d4b8ebc366b2954458772%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D324221121903%26itm%3D324221121903%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A140d88f8-c1ee-11ea-a7cf-f2405f66637e|parentrq%3A33eab6d91730a4e86bf90eadffeaba7c|iid%3A1 Please discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted July 9, 2020 Share #2 Posted July 9, 2020 It looks Brit made to me here is two on an uncut rectangle from a group with the same backing.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted July 9, 2020 Share #3 Posted July 9, 2020 I agree with Scotty. This patch is English made. It is a nice, original too. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted July 10, 2020 Share #4 Posted July 10, 2020 Maybe doubt was caused by the background color of the patch. The posted patch appears BLACK while the English version is BLUE. Most if not all of the British made are on dark blue material and think that is the concern of the original poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaOps Posted July 11, 2020 Share #5 Posted July 11, 2020 The highlighted blue embroidery on the wing looks like a US made PF wing to me. The unusual feature is the absence of the mesh on the rear. As highlighted by Mort the backing material looks black and not purple? Attached is a photo of a US made wing above an uncut Brit wing. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted July 11, 2020 Share #6 Posted July 11, 2020 The black backed pathfinder wings were made for members of the 101st Airborne Division as was stated to be by a WWII 101st A/B pathfinder. The muslin backing material is what leads me to the opinion that the pathfinder wing is English made. I have only ever encountered WWII US made examples on blue with a cheesecloth backing. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted July 13, 2020 Share #7 Posted July 13, 2020 Agree with Allan all of my US made ones were Blue with cheesecloth backings.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patches Posted July 13, 2020 Share #8 Posted July 13, 2020 Here's a great topic that shows lots of different WWII, U.S. and English made cloth badges for comparison. https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/210035-ww2-pathfinder-badge-info-and-opinions/ My question is when exactly did the Army start to wear the machine embroidered on Black Twill types with thin Black borders?, one date given in another topic gives a 1964 date, if so like what would a Pathfinder Badge be made of say in the Korean War era through the 50s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share #9 Posted July 13, 2020 So here is another observation regarding British made PF patches. There appears to be a small gap between the flame and the edge of the wing. This gap is not seen in the OP above and in other U.S. made examples. Here are examples of British PF patches that have been posted by members on this Forum. Note the separation of the red flame thread and the yellow wing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share #10 Posted July 13, 2020 U.S. made PF Patches. Note there is not a gap between the red flame and the yellow wing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted July 13, 2020 Share #11 Posted July 13, 2020 That is an interesting observation and adds validity to your theory. What do the backs of the above look like? Do they have cheesecloth as Allan suggests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted July 13, 2020 Author Share #12 Posted July 13, 2020 All the U.S. made PF patches have the white cheesecloth backing. Again, I would like to thank the members of this Forum for posting the photos of these PF patches in previous threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaOps Posted July 14, 2020 Share #13 Posted July 14, 2020 Interesting observation. I'm still of the opinion that the first wing posted is a US made example, but the dilemma is the missing white cheese cloth. It might be my eyesight but the wing doesn't seem to have any age to it? Enjoying this thread. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan H. Posted July 14, 2020 Share #14 Posted July 14, 2020 Quote . I got my pathfinder wing on a black felt background from Glenn Braddock, who went into Normandy in Stick 2 of the 502nd PIR's pathfinder team. He is the one that told me that the wings were done on black for 101st troopers and that they got them in England. Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Gulf Command Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share #15 Posted July 14, 2020 ParaOps, I'm going to use your photo to point out one more subtle difference between the U.S. and British made PF patches. On the U.S. PF patch the red stitching of the flame, where it meets the top edge of the wing, is oriented from NE to SW or upper right to lower left. On the British PF Patch the red stitching of the flame, the stitching is oriented from the NW to SE or upper left to lower right. This stitching pattern also appears on the other U.S. vs British FP patches I have seen. The OP PF patch has this NE to SW orientation, which might indicate a U.S. origin. I have only handled four PF patches and observed the photos of approximately nine separate PF patches. Obviously, my sampling of these is limited. So to Allan, Bill, and Mort I will differ to you and your judgements regarding the origin of the OP PF patch. My observations about the stitching patterns of these few examples may or may not be enough to make any determination. However, the OP PF patch does appear to be some sort of anomaly. Photo w/ green highlights to illustrate the stitching pattern: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyh Posted September 23, 2023 Share #16 Posted September 23, 2023 This is my Pathfinder patch, which I believe is original. Billyh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonomachi Posted September 25, 2023 Share #17 Posted September 25, 2023 On 9/23/2023 at 2:11 AM, Billyh said: This is my Pathfinder patch, which I believe is original. Billyh It is genuine but post war usually worn on the left pocket in the below photos. There is also a later period version with a merrowed edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billyh Posted September 25, 2023 Share #18 Posted September 25, 2023 Thanks mate. Billyh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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