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Jack Angola 1 Day Military Auction


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As some of our members aware, long time collector Jack Angolia is having an auction of a portion of his collection this coming weekend.

 

Some of the items that have been listed look to be truly remarkable.

 

However, the Moderating Staff feel obligated to note that some collectors and vendors have gone on record that some of the items may have

been supplemented or "restored" with items that were not original to the service member who owned and wore them.

 

We recommend you pay attention to this notice from the auctioneers -"All veteran attributions and histories have been provided by the consignor and are believed to be accurate but not guaranteed by the auctioneer."

 

The only advice we can give is to look at the listings carefully, and ask the opinion of your fellow collectors.  As the saying goes,

buy what you can see, and not necessarily the story. 

 

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

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3 hours ago, gwb123 said:

 

 

We recommend you pay attention to this notice from the auctioneers -"All veteran attributions and histories have been provided by the consignor and are believed to be accurate but not guaranteed by the auctioneer."

 

 

 

Rule one when buying from dealers of antiquities...no guarantee=steer clear. This is a well-known and much observed rules in TR and even ancient antiquity communities...but oft forgotten in the US field.

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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There are absolutely auction houses that guarantee what they sell, and many more who offer inspection periods at a minimum

 

Even the auction site hosting the sale is known to do it........

 

 

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-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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9 hours ago, manayunkman said:

I’m used to auctions you attend.

 

None of them give refunds or guarantees.

 

Its up to you to know what you are doing.

Sure, many auctions wash their hands of it. But considering that outside of eBay, I've never once mentioned the name of any auctions I patronize, I doubt you're used to the auctions I attend.

 

Here's one with a lifetime guarantee... https://www.meigrayauctions.com/mobile/default.aspx

 

Oh, look, another one... https://www.artemisgallery.com/

 

If you want to fanboy up to a collection known and proven to have obvious humps, that's your business. Ultimately it is up to the buyer, but that doesn't mean that the community can't warn young or inexperienced collectors of something amiss and try to save them a few bucks and embarrassment 

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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1 hour ago, manayunkman said:

I’m glad to see that there are auction houses that are concerned about what they sell.

 

 

Good point there, because ultimately it is the Auction House's reputation on the line as well... If they are known for selling estates or groupings that are questionable and that word circulates around,,, they may lose business.. That's just my opinion though,, they may or may not lose money (especially with all the post auction fees they may come out on top)...

 

On a side note,, in Angolia's Auction:  LOT 71 for Lt. Hinchman, several years ago I purchased a dress green uniform from Jack that was Hinchman's when he was a Major. (reportedly) My only interest at the time was the 187th Airborne, which in this case was the Major's combat patch on this particular dress green uniform. I believe he later transferred into Air Defense Artillery as that was the collar brass on the uniform. Well I received a photo of the same shadow box with the 187th and 11th Airborne insignia. There was never any mention about the Sykes Dagger or other items, but Jack mentioned there was a Japanese sword which he also sent me a photo of. I could not afford the price of the sword as it was way out of my price range and not in my direct area of collecting.. I guess the sword was parted out and sold long ago..

 

But I am mentioning this to the forum in the off chance that someone here does get the Hinchman grouping:  LOT 71. If someone here does get the lot I have the dress green uniform and I would be willing to return the uniform to this grouping so it is at least semi complete so to speak..

 

If I get a chance before the auction starts tomorrow I will take some pictures of the uniform and a scan of the shadow box and sword...

 

Best regards everyone... Stay Safe..

 

Leigh

 

 

"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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As always ....having the thought of buying a "put-together" still gives me the heeby jeebies....but for some reason, there are alot of these items that I would not mind having.

 

And to be honest there are 2 groups on the auction site that Jack bought from me that have items added.  So I know 100 % that they have been added to.

 

Even still, I think if I had the money that these will undoubtedly go for, I would not mind having them.

 

It's funny how most run around saying "buy the item, not the story" but then get up in arms about possibly having an embellished item.

 

I think it's wrong and most certainly a disgrace to do so, but if you're truly buying the item then you should be happy with your purchase.

 

Hope everyone that bids is successful.

 

Stay well everyone

 

Daniel

Actively collecting:

13th USAAF uniforms and groups/medal groups!

307th BG, 5th BG, 11th BG, 42nd BG

Also looking for:

WWII Far East Air Force uniforms/groups!

Any Pacific Army Air Force Groups to 5th, 7th, 10th, 14th, 20th AAF

Collecting CBI and ATC Pacific Army Air Force groups

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USMF's custom photo resize tool:http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/229816-custom-resize-tool-exclusively-for-the-usmf/




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Brig,

 

I apologize I just reread what I wrote and It’s not what I meant.


I have no idea what auctions you frequent but most auctions don’t offer guarantees.

 

I attend quite a few auctions a month, my partner is an auctioneer and none of them guarantee anything.

 

As a matter of fact in some of the live auctions I attend the auctioneers constantly say things like, your guess is good as mine, you be the judge, make sure you want it before you buy it and similar statements.

 

I attend a lot of dive auctions but I have a good success rate at them.

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2 hours ago, doinworkinvans said:

As always ....having the thought of buying a "put-together" still gives me the heeby jeebies....but for some reason, there are alot of these items that I would not mind having.

 

And to be honest there are 2 groups on the auction site that Jack bought from me that have items added.  So I know 100 % that they have been added to.

 

Even still, I think if I had the money that these will undoubtedly go for, I would not mind having them.

 

It's funny how most run around saying "buy the item, not the story" but then get up in arms about possibly having an embellished item.

 

I think it's wrong and most certainly a disgrace to do so, but if you're truly buying the item then you should be happy with your purchase.

 

Hope everyone that bids is successful.

 

Stay well everyone

 

Daniel

I take “buy the item, not the story” to mean that one should judge the originality of an item on its own merits, and not base that decision on any story the seller is peddling “...purchased directly from the veteran, who picked it up in Aachen in 1944...”

 

To do otherwise, would whittle out the value of attribution, and relegate items to being worth the sum of parts only.

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2 hours ago, doinworkinvans said:

As always ....having the thought of buying a "put-together" still gives me the heeby jeebies....but for some reason, there are alot of these items that I would not mind having.

 

And to be honest there are 2 groups on the auction site that Jack bought from me that have items added.  So I know 100 % that they have been added to.

 

Even still, I think if I had the money that these will undoubtedly go for, I would not mind having them.

You might be surprised. While pandemicpalooza might not be significantly affected the market yet on onsie/twosie sales...I think it's absolutely going to result in lower sales prices of something this large and I fully expect many lots not to achieve opening bids...which may mean we'll see them reappear at lower prices

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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For those who think about bidding in this auction:

 

I inquired about if some of the uniforms are named inside (they were attributed to veterans).

However, the auction house replied that none of the uniforms I asked for were named.

Speaking for myself, I decided to not bid anymore, as the consigner is already known for putting uniforms together.
And without a name inside, it will be very hard to prove the uniform belonged to a certain veteran and is 100% original.

Looking to buy D-Day and 101st/82nd related groupings

Doolittle Raider Jacob DeShazer: 'If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raise Him from the dead, you will be saved (Romans 10:9)

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On 7/23/2020 at 12:57 PM, doinworkinvans said:

And to be honest there are 2 groups on the auction site that Jack bought from me that have items added.  So I know 100 % that they have been added to.

 

Daniel's one sentence there tells me everything I need to know about this auction. Caveat emptor. 

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1 hour ago, MattS said:

 

Daniel's one sentence there tells me everything I need to know about this auction. Caveat emptor. 

And yet, many collectors will see the items with the eyes of a raccoon looking at something sparkly and will buy it for the sparkle and not the fact.

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."
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As always ....having the thought of buying a "put-together" still gives me the heeby jeebies....but for some reason, there are alot of these items that I would not mind having.
 
And to be honest there are 2 groups on the auction site that Jack bought from me that have items added.  So I know 100 % that they have been added to.
 
Even still, I think if I had the money that these will undoubtedly go for, I would not mind having them.
 
It's funny how most run around saying "buy the item, not the story" but then get up in arms about possibly having an embellished item.
 
I think it's wrong and most certainly a disgrace to do so, but if you're truly buying the item then you should be happy with your purchase.
 
Hope everyone that bids is successful.
 
Stay well everyone
 
Daniel

You are saying you would buy back your Own grouping that has items added to from a Jack ?

That’s one of the weirdest things I think I have heard from a collector

Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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36 minutes ago, kammo-man said:


You are saying you would buy back your Own grouping that has items added to from a Jack ?

That’s one of the weirdest things I think I have heard from a collector

Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 No, I get it, buy it back and make it right (by removing the added items) again. 

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6 hours ago, kammo-man said:


You are saying you would buy back your Own grouping that has items added to from a Jack ?

That’s one of the weirdest things I think I have heard from a collector

Owen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why not - if I know the items were added - I can remove them.  If the price was right, I wouldn't have a problem with it.  

 

And again - if an item/group speaks to you and makes your collecting bone itch - then I say scratch that itch.  Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

 

We are all a little weird in our way - thank the good Lord he made us all different.  I couldn't live in a world full of myself!

 

Have a great week everyone!

 

-Daniel

 

 

Actively collecting:

13th USAAF uniforms and groups/medal groups!

307th BG, 5th BG, 11th BG, 42nd BG

Also looking for:

WWII Far East Air Force uniforms/groups!

Any Pacific Army Air Force Groups to 5th, 7th, 10th, 14th, 20th AAF

Collecting CBI and ATC Pacific Army Air Force groups

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifmsg-24355-0-77312200-1449362814.gif

 

USMF's custom photo resize tool:http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/229816-custom-resize-tool-exclusively-for-the-usmf/




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Although I am not a uniform collector myself, I see an obvious difference between "restoration" and "fabrication" and this ethos transcends uniforms alone. If one represents that a legitimately  named and ID'ed tunic has been restored with ribbon bars, wings, insignia, etc. using photos of the original recipient wearing the said item, while it may decrease the value, if it is represented as such, I see no harm in displaying it and enjoying it and ultimately giving it value. Many of the "shiny" items were removed from tunics for storage or dry cleaning purposes and never made their way back onto the uniform, so bringing it back to life seems logical. However, if something is completely fabricated to dupe a potential buyer, then certainly an unscrupulous act and should be called out. Many have profited off the desires of ones who want to own something they don't. We all have different ways of collecting. Some want every variant of a bayonet, all unissued and mint, while others enjoy a ragged piece of cloth that survived an historic event or time period. To debate whether someone is right or wrong from their perspective of collecting, in my opinion, is mute. In any case, we all should be vigilant to prevent fraud or misrepresentation as I feel it dishonors the very sacrifices that our veterans made for us, and the core impetus of why most of us collect. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope it resonates with some.

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Personally not a fan of adding or even “restoring” unless there is some sort of disclaimer stating all that has been added and all that is not original. It’s one thing to find a ribbon bar in the pocket of the uniform and pin it on, it’s another to add all original insignia to a uniform. I’ve never been a fan of restoring anything, unless there is a picture of the vet wearing all of the insignia you pin on. Otherwise, you never really know what they even wore or how they wore it. Maybe the soldier went home wearing nothing on their uniform, it has been mentioned in veterans memoirs before they came home with a plain uniform, and in that case you aren’t “restoring it to its former glory” you are just making it look how you wished for it to look. I have seen people attempt to “correct” uniforms by putting ribbons in the right order, adding insignia that did not belong to the vet, etc, and I just don’t like it. It takes away the history of it. When I hold a uniform I see Insignia pinned on by the vets hand in a way they were comfortable with wearing, and in a way they wanted to wear. It’s one thing to clean off the dust from storage opposed to adding things. If you really want to add insignia then use modern reproductions, that way it is easy to tell and no need to argue if you sell it and the person decides to pass it on as original.

That’s my personal opinion though. I don’t buy uniforms with added things, it’s not my thing, If you like to live in your own fantasy where every vet came home with a plethora of cool insignia, then go ahead and restore a uniform, but please at least document it for those of us that prefer our history untouched and correct as to how the vets actually wore their uniform.

Just my 2 cents.

Hunt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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."If one represents that a legitimately  named and ID'ed tunic has been restored with ribbon bars, wings, insignia, etc. using photos of the original recipient wearing the said item, while it may decrease the value, if it is represented as such, I see no harm in displaying it and enjoying it and ultimately giving it value"

 

 

Yep.....as I stated above

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5 hours ago, huntssurplus said:

 If you like to live in your own fantasy where every vet came home with a plethora of cool insignia, then go ahead and restore a uniform

Just my 2 cents.

Hunt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're describing a humped uniform, or a representative uniform, or even a fantasy uniform...not a restored uniform. Restored uniforms are those that have original and RATED insignia/awards added after meticulously researching the vet's service record...and is disclosed when offered for sale/discussion

-Brig
GySgt/USMC/0369
RSU-Quantico


"FOR OUR TOMORROWS, THEY GAVE THEIR TODAYS"
RIP
Sgt Jesse 'Jeff Nasty' Balthaser
Sgt John P Huling
Cpl Carlos 'Gilo Monster' Gilorozco
Cpl Stephen C 'Socks' Sockalosky
LCpl Joshua A 'Scottie' Scott
LCpl Jason Lee 'Birdman' Frye
LCpl Nicolas B Morrison
LCpl Jon T Hicks
LCpl Osbrany 'Oz' Montes De Oca
Pvt Lewis T D Calapini
'The SOI 5'

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24 minutes ago, Brig said:

You're describing a humped uniform, or a representative uniform, or even a fantasy uniform...not a restored uniform. Restored uniforms are those that have original and RATED insignia/awards added after meticulously researching the vet's service record...and is disclosed when offered for sale/discussion

 

Even then though how can you be sure that the insignia restored is in the correct configuration, or even worn. My argument was that people are adding insignia that the vet was not entitled to, but rather people are adding insignia the vet could have worn but didn't. 


In the book "With the 41st Division in the Southwest Pacific", which is a memoir from a soldier who fought with the 41st Infantry Division during WW2, the author mentions that as he was discharged he wore his wool 4 pocket dress uniform, however he wore it bare. He mentions how he didn't have the 41st Division, his CIB, or even his rank insignia on the uniform even though he was entitled to it. His reasoning was he just wanted to go home after being overseas fighting for so long, that he didn't care if he had all his decorations and insignia. 

 

My point is that if someone acquired this vets uniform and found the connection, and did the research and found he was entitled to a CIB, pacific campaign ribbon, etc, and that the uniform didn't have any of that on it, and then they decided to "restore" it, and then added all of the insignia on it, would it really be "restored"? The vet never wore any of this insignia, and in fact he chose to wear his uniform bare because he wanted to go home. The uniform would then be a fantasy piece. Could the vet have worn the uniform like this? Yes? But did he choose to? No. And that's where I have problems with the restored uniforms. Some are extremely well research, and have vet testimony, photographic evidence, etc behind it. But some don't. 


Now if it's disclosed and all does it really matter? No, because whoever buys it will know at least. But then if they leave it as is they should continue to pass on. And most of the people who restore uniforms do disclose, and do it because they appreciate the uniform and the history. And I would like to apologize because my earlier tone was much more aggressive then it should have been. I'm just very strict about leaving things as is. And when anyone buys anything they can obviously do whatever they want to it cause it's their property. I just don't always fully agree with the practice of "restoration" because in my experience of collecting WW2 uniforms, vets did a lot of non-regulation things, and thus even displaying the ribbon bar in order may not be how the vet wore it and thus not fully original. Does anyone really care about such a minute detail like if the ribbons are displayed in the exact order as the vet wore them in 1945? I'm probably the only one who really does, but it's these small details that I love most about collecting WW2 uniforms. So forgive me for it, but I just think the "restoration" can take away from the interesting combinations of how WW2 uniforms were worn. 

 

Again, do what you want if you own it. It's just how I see what I collect. 

 

Hunt

I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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