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WWI Army Of Occupation medal criteria

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If you were in Germany, still in the US Army, not discharged, after November 11, 1918 up to 1923 are you qualified for medal in question or is there more qualifications to receive this medal?

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They are commonly seen on WW2 era uniforms belonging to service members going home. When they were given their "occupation ribbon" it was common for there to be a mixup with whoever was issuing it to them and thus you commonly see them on WW2 uniforms. The soldiers usually didn't care that much, which is why you see them.


Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

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15 minutes ago, huntssurplus said:

They are commonly seen on WW2 era uniforms belonging to service members going home. When they were given their "occupation ribbon" it was common for there to be a mixup with whoever was issuing it to them and thus you commonly see them on WW2 uniforms. The soldiers usually didn't care that much, which is why you see them.


Hunt

 

Where did you get this information - do you have a reference of some sort?  

 

I’ve not read or seen this anywhere.

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2 minutes ago, Blacksmith said:

 

Where did you get this information - do you have a reference of some sort?  

 

I’ve not read or seen this anywhere.

 

What part of the statement? Or all of it? 

I guess first off I've seen it said on the forum multiple times. But second of all I have multiple uniforms with the ribbon the ribbon bar that have no evidence of previous WW1 service. In fact some were born AFTER the occupation post-WW1 ended making it literally impossible for them to have been awarded. Logically, why would they have it?
 

There are a few logical possibilities i have seen:

 

1. Like I said they were simply given the WW1 occupation ribbon when they asked for an "occupation ribbon" to denote their service during the Post-WW2 occupation, and whether they knew that it was the incorrect ribbon or not, they wore it anyway because they were going home (keep in mind you only see it on WW2 uniforms from soldiers who have a discharge date of pre 1947).

 

2. Because of the amount of soldiers entitled to receive an "occupation ribbon" and without enough manufactured to hand out to the millions of service members being discharged, they instead handed out the WW1 occupation ribbon as a sort of placeholder.

 

3. Before the actual WW2 occupation ribbon was established, the WW1 occupation ribbon was handed out for recognition of occupation service.

 

4. the vet added on the occupation ribbon on their own accord without knowing it was actually the WW1 instead of WW2 (this only applies in cases where it is obviously post war added)/

 

Here are some threads from the forum:

 

 

 

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that this ribbon is original and vet worn by Soldiers coming home from WW2 who served in some capacity in the post WW2 occupation. 

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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So, your second post reads very different to me.

 

Your first post states it was a “mixup”, but then your theories in your second post imply they were knowingly issued a WWI ribbon.  

 

Sorry, but it sounds like a bunch of baseless guessing.

 

Having actually been in the Army, I can tell you - in three years of active duty, with a deployment - I never knew of a soldier asking for an award / medal / ribbon.  And having interviewed scores of WWII veterans, I highly doubt they asked for an occupation ribbon.  

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It's interesting to read this Medal/Ribbon is talked about in a WWII connection. The cutoff time for this medal was 1923. Not even close to WWII. The medal itself wasn't ready until late 1941. When the WWII version came out, distribution was confusing for some.

 

 

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Hunt is absolutely right. Here I have a 5th div ike with the ribbon.a65a9fa9a59085a86ad68fed092f3f03.jpg38848d2f050c9daacbe6e045951dc45e.jpg

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2 hours ago, Blacksmith said:

So, your second post reads very different to me.

 

Your first post states it was a “mixup”, but then your theories in your second post imply they were knowingly issued a WWI ribbon.  

 

Sorry, but it sounds like a bunch of baseless guessing.

 

Having actually been in the Army, I can tell you - in three years of active duty, with a deployment - I never knew of a soldier asking for an award / medal / ribbon.  And having interviewed scores of WWII veterans, I highly doubt they asked for an occupation ribbon.  

 

Did you see the threads I linked on my post. Member Dan_the_hun84 states that this exact type of ribbon is found on his grandfather's Ike. And to say that this is baseless guessing is quite false.

 

My second post was meant to outline possible reasons as to why they were worn, it may read a bit weirdly, but the points still stand. The first point was supposed the be the earlier "mixup" statement I made before. The truth is, part of it is guessing as to why they are found on WW2 uniforms, but there is no doubt they were worn by WW2 vets coming home. I myself have 2-3 jackets in my own collection with the ribbon that I have no doubt are original. It is not actually that uncommon either. 

 

And yes some of my theories may not check out 100%--but they are theories--and in the end the fact is still that the ribbon was worn by WW2 veterans on their uniforms. I would say that most likely there is a mix of reasons. Keep in mind WW2 vets were not exactly worried by conforming perfectly to all the uniform regulations. Ribbons out of place, missing ribbons, non-authorized ribbons, all sorts of things are seen, so it is not weird to me at all that this ribbon is worn. 

 

Hunt


I am an amateur collector of US military items of the 20th century.

 

Looking for items related to:

-The Aleutian Island Campaign of WW2, Alaskan Theater, Alaska Defense Command, and more specifically the Battle of Attu

-Items related to the 50th Combat Engineer Regiment/Battalion

-Items related to Wheelus Air Force Base Libya, particularly from 1957-1960

-WW2 items belonging to service members from Northern Virginia

-WW2 Uniforms (all branches and services)

-Cheap/Throwaway WW2 named uniforms

-Smaller WW2 Groupings

-7th Infantry Division Items

-WW2 Photos and Letters (all branches, theaters, services, etc)

 

^^ PM ME!!

 

Instagram: @surplus_central https://instagram.com/surplus_central/

eBay: http://www.ebay.com/usr/giovachm

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And now back to the original question by GIJoe. 

 

I don't think there were additional conditions for this medal. I never read about a qualifying period (30 days?, 3 months?) or other stipulations.

 

The medal itself was instituted in 1941. The veterans themselves could apply for the medal. As a lot of WW2 campaign medals were produced after WW2 due to material restrictions. So, I wonder when they actually received this medal? Perhaps someone else of our forum friends can answer this.

 

Interesting question GIJoe. 

 

Oh and regarding the other discussion. I know of a lot of (ex)soldiers who are asking for their medals.

And as a Dutchman looking at the US awards system I see medals, awards, insignia etc,. who have to be applied for by the future recipiënt. For example all pre WW1 Purple Hearts and Silver Star medals. If you didn't request them as a WW1 vet, you never got them.

 

Regards

Herman 

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Hi Herman,

 

I research and archive my family's military history for the past 47 years. I have my Grandfather's original Purple Heart and WWIVM. Jump to 2016 and found out that he was qualified for a Silver Star Medal. I asked the US Army to go over his record (I supplied) and approved the medal. Also, the US Army found more Awards and Decorations including another 6th WWIVM clasp for his previous 5 clasps. Also, this WWI Army Of Occupation medal.

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Great story GIJoe. 

 

I hope you will receive them.

 

Regards

Herman 

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gijoe..

 

In answer to your original question, here are copies of documentation regarding the Army of Occupation of Germany Medal criteria.

 

The first is from - The Library of Congress,  United States Statues at Large,   77th Congress, page 781 - 782

 

The second is  from the - Federal Register, Friday February 14, 1947

 

Occ1.jpg.cba18c23efd2321e9459ee177a94f544.jpg

Occ2.jpg.3eeedae4b091db8b959322182ca1f5d4.jpg

 

****

Occ3.jpg.5bd8452b946bc3fe02cb4390fcaeb720.jpg

 

 

(For reference, the World War 2 era Army of Occupation Medal was established by War Department Circular 102 dated 5 April 1946.  Another reference indicates War Department General Orders (WDGO) 32, 1946 )

 

Larry

 


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https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/270307-help-to-id-pow-ribbon/

 

If you look at this post it may answer some questions.  Hermanus is correct the WWI Occupation medal was authorized in November  1941.  After Pearl Harbor, a month later, the medal was put on hold for the duration.  The first issue of these medals was in September 1945.  The timing created confusion and is why you see a lot of WWI ribbons on WWII uniforms.

 

Take a look at the link, there is a more detailed explanation and photos.

 

i hope this helps


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5 hours ago, Old Marine said:

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/270307-help-to-id-pow-ribbon/

 

If you look at this post it may answer some questions.  Hermanus is correct the WWI Occupation medal was authorized in November  1941.  After Pearl Harbor, a month later, the medal was put on hold for the duration.  The first issue of these medals was in September 1945.  The timing created confusion and is why you see a lot of WWI ribbons on WWII uniforms.

 

Take a look at the link, there is a more detailed explanation and photos.

 

i hope this helps

 

You nailed it.! ! 

Especially the lack of "World war I" on the box started the mix up. Not all military personell are experts on decorations. Some don't care at all.

 

Thanks and regarde

Herman 

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Herman,

 

Yes, I did receive the the Medals grouping from the government. The SSM and PH are engraved. Also, look at the WWIVM. I started a topic on this awhile ago.

JBG SR SB.jpg

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Nice display  👍

 

Regards 

Herman 

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Thanks Herman,

 

The WWIVM has a France Clasp on it with the others all in alphabetical order. What?! I called the US Army on the medal. They said there is no regulation says they have to be in battle order and the reason for the France Clasp is because the battles and service took place in France. I asked a for instance an England Clasp. What battle clasps work with that one. Silence on phone. Thanks for everything.

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Yeah, the France clasp together with the battle clasps is a no go for the WW1 Victory medal. But this is what you get 90 years after the regulations were written. 

Nowadays the credo with tge DoD is, the more bling the better......

 

I would remove the France clasp. But the choice is yours as you remember your granddad. 

 

Regards 

Herman 

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