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WW2 US Navy Enlisted Whites Uniform Question


huntssurplus
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huntssurplus

Hey guys,

 

Here's a question for you: Why is the ruptured duck never found on Enlisted Navy White uniforms? They definitely seem to be less common the dress blue uniform, but when it comes to the dress white version, I never see them with ribbons or a ruptured duck patch. Only rank and, service stripes, and the occasional cuff or unit patch. Why is this? Am I mistaken and there never were "dress" whites during WW2? Or was it simply because they weren't in wear when the highest portion of naval servicemen came home at the end of WW2? I always thought the ruptured duck continued to be issued throughout most of 1946, so wouldn't enlisted naval servicemen going home in the spring and summer of '46 wear the ruptured duck on their whites? 

I guess if anyone has any dress whites from the WW2 period with ribbons and or a ruptured duck I would like to see them! And if someone could correct me on what I'm missing here that would help too!

Thanks

Hunt

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The Dress White uniform was droped just before WWII, it had blue collar and cuffs. The White Undress uniform could be worn as a dress uniform with the addition of a tie or neckerchief, what ever it is called, but it was not a very attractive uniform and I think most men wanted to look their best to go home so they opted for the blues. I don't remember ever seeing a White Undress Uniform with a Ruptured Duck but I do have a dark blue on white one so they do exist. 

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huntssurplus
7 hours ago, QED4 said:

The Dress White uniform was droped just before WWII, it had blue collar and cuffs. The White Undress uniform could be worn as a dress uniform with the addition of a tie or neckerchief, what ever it is called, but it was not a very attractive uniform and I think most men wanted to look their best to go home so they opted for the blues. I don't remember ever seeing a White Undress Uniform with a Ruptured Duck but I do have a dark blue on white one so they do exist. 

 

Okay that makes sense! I didn't realize the dress version of the whites was dropped right before WW2. Do you know of the exact date of when it was dropped, or have the an update regulation sheet showing it dropped?

So the wear of the dress blues as a dress uniform is not seasonal? They were worn year round? And do you have the uniform you mentioned with the ruptured duck on a white uniform? I have a picture of a relative of mine wearing his whites during the war, no ruptured duck or ribbons but rank insignia and neckerchief are present. I'm guessing this was just for liberty wear then? 

 

Hunt

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DocCollector1441

Navy Dress Blues could be worn year round. Typically in summer time and tropical climates (e.g. Hawaii), the undress white uniform would be worn with a neckerchief. The dress white uniform was dropped in 1940 IIRC. I am not sure of the actual official reason, but the reason I have always heard was that the uniform was too similar in appearance to the Kriegsmarine white jumper. I am not sure if I agree with that due to the fact that most of the world's navies that had a white uniform had a similar appearance. 

 

As as mentioned, white ruptured ducks did exist. My guess is that due to the nature of the uniform, many whites have been thrown away or destroyed over time due to discoloration and other factors. This is why white uniforms are far less common than blue uniforms in the marketplace. So my earnest guess is that on top of being relatively rare to begin with, those that did exist are likely to have been tossed due to condition.

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huntssurplus
Navy Dress Blues could be worn year round. Typically in summer time and tropical climates (e.g. Hawaii), the undress white uniform would be worn with a neckerchief. The dress white uniform was dropped in 1940 IIRC. I am not sure of the actual official reason, but the reason I have always heard was that the uniform was too similar in appearance to the Kriegsmarine white jumper. I am not sure if I agree with that due to the fact that most of the world's navies that had a white uniform had a similar appearance. 
 
As as mentioned, white ruptured ducks did exist. My guess is that due to the nature of the uniform, many whites have been thrown away or destroyed over time due to discoloration and other factors. This is why white uniforms are far less common than blue uniforms in the marketplace. So my earnest guess is that on top of being relatively rare to begin with, those that did exist are likely to have been tossed due to condition.

Okay that makes a lot of sense! I wonder if they were taken away to simplify things? Maybe because of the obvious war looming on the horizon, it was dropped to streamline issuance of uniforms? I don’t have any evidence for it, but it seems like it could be a possibility. Then again the navy has always liked having an exorbitant amount of uniforms, and did start issuing the grey uniform during the war.

Anyway, that also makes a lot of sense as to why there aren’t that many white uniforms left. If any forum members have an example of a white uniform with the ruptured duck, or in a dress uniform configuration please post it!

Hunt


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Because they had to be cleaned frequently, standard issue was three white jumpers, and only one blue dress jumper (though more could be bought). OTOH, enlisted personnel were issued two blue and one white ruptured duck (plus one khaki or gray for CPOs and stewards).  And if they didn't plan to wear whites home (not great to travel in), they probably wouldn't bother to sew it on. So the odds are against surviving white jumpers having the duck.

 

The ALNAV of 12 October 1941 just said the dress white was discontinued. So there was only white undress the rest of the war, which, like undress blue, did not include ribbons but could be worn with the neckerchief in some circumstances. It wasn't until 1947 that undress white could be prescribed with ribbons and neckerchief. In 1959 that uniform was named service dress white.

 

One reason often stated for eliminating the dress white jumper in 1941 is laundry issues, the blue dye bled into the white material. But the same order also suspended dress uniforms for officers for the period of national emergency, so it could have just been a measure to simplify the seabag for wartime production. Or maybe both, I've never seen anything definitive on that.

 

 

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huntssurplus
Because they had to be cleaned frequently, standard issue was three white jumpers, and only one blue dress jumper (though more could be bought). OTOH, enlisted personnel were issued two blue and one white ruptured duck (plus one khaki or gray for CPOs and stewards).  And if they didn't plan to wear whites home (not great to travel in), they probably wouldn't bother to sew it on. So the odds are against surviving white jumpers having the duck.
 
The ALNAV of 12 October 1941 just said the dress white was discontinued. So there was only white undress the rest of the war, which, like undress blue, did not include ribbons but could be worn with the neckerchief in some circumstances. It wasn't until 1947 that undress white could be prescribed with ribbons and neckerchief. In 1959 that uniform was named service dress white.
 
One reason often stated for eliminating the dress white jumper in 1941 is laundry issues, the blue dye bled into the white material. But the same order also suspended dress uniforms for officers for the period of national emergency, so it could have just been a measure to simplify the seabag for wartime production. Or maybe both, I've never seen anything definitive on that.
 
 

Thanks for the information Justin, that clears things up a lot more. Sounds like the whites were just not the best uniform. Were the undress whites unpopular with enlisted men? Or were they more indifferent? Sounds like the blues were much preferred by most.

Hunt


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3 hours ago, huntssurplus said:


Thanks for the information Justin, that clears things up a lot more. Sounds like the whites were just not the best uniform. Were the undress whites unpopular with enlisted men? Or were they more indifferent? Sounds like the blues were much preferred by most.

Hunt


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I hated wearing whites. They were not comfortable. They got filthy, just putting them on. After a few hours, really nasty. I could not imagine riding on a train home, for a couple of days, in the same set of whites. Generally, by the end of summer, all your whites were trash. We tossed them and replaced them. 
 

the other thing, by the time the majority were being demobilized, they were getting into “Blues Season” anyway. 

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P-40Warhawk

I've seen several enlisted white jumpers with the white ruptured duck sewn on. It just isn't something you see on each on because as far as I know only one white ruptured duck was issued, while sailors had several white jumpers (they would not have applied the patch to each one, just the one they needed to wear home). Also remember that it depended on which Naval District you were in/being discharged from as to what your required uniform would be. Different areas of the country would wear whites/blues depending on season and orders.

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Kurt Barickman

You do see them but not as often. Had to handle lines wearing them when pulling into foreign port of calls and was glad that when I made third class Gunners Mate and then was able to stand around with an M-14 to shoot a line if necessary. They get dirty very easily,

 

IMHO,

 

Kurt

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